BX TZD Temp Gauge

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roscoe
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BX TZD Temp Gauge

Post by roscoe » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:53 am

OK folks, I found an instrument panel from a 16V here and want to swap it into my TZD so I can have a working temp gauge. I see from posts on the Andy Spares site (a thread I started) that a number of BX'ers in the UK have done this (Bernie?) and there is also some info on it at the Tramontana site. What I need to know is how to swap the speedo and tach out of my TZD panel into the 16V one, plus any other little tricks to make this an easy job.
Are the instructions on the Tramontona site all that has to be done or is there something else? Do I need to swap the speedo's or not - my TZD one is in mph (I imported the car from the UK when I moved to Oz) and the 16V one is a local one in Km/h...will the speedo head gearing be the same?
Any help most appreciated - especially a 'gumbies guide' set of instructions from someone who has 'been there/done that' ! :D :idea:
cheers,
Roscoe
1991 TZD
2004 Peugeot 307
1990 Mitsubishi Express Van - Alpaca Transporter

AlanS
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Post by AlanS » Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:48 pm

I'm taking a punt here, but when metrics came to Australia, I was in the car business and I'm pretty sure the cars around at the changeover could be swapped across as an option.
Might sound strange, but the car industry had a moratorium on metric conversions that went even as far as prices, so you were dealing in $s but advertising in the "old" currency and as everybody was used to MPG, some preferred to still wok on the mileage speedo so they could work out the MPG which wasn't hard as they sold petrol still in gallons and not litres for quite q while also. Based on that, I'd suggest the swap over should be straight forward.
No wonder some of us who were around back then, still have problems getting our heads around metrics. ImageImage


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Post by DLM » Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:05 pm

Before starting, look at the 16v instruments again, and verify it's a Veglia dash panel you've procured. If it's Jaeger instead swear loudly and carry on looking for a Veglia one.

Rather than inserting your new speedo and the rev counter (which won't work anway as it's set up to cope with a coil signal rather than a flywheel sensor input ), do the following. Swap out your "head cooked"/"head now unusable" light assembly from your current dash instead, then swap in the the 16v temp gauge you "removed earlier" from the 16v panel, at the same time wiring in the BX-DIY single-wire mod.

Once the panel is out, and the front prised carefully off, it's a question of removing 6 tiny bolts (AFAIR 5mm ) from the back of the panel to free this rightmost module. Don't lose the tiny washers behind when doing this on the 16v panel. Now push the resultant protruding instrument threads gently inward, and the redundant module should free itself from the front of the panel, or be in a position where you can prise it gently off and out.

As for wiring in the "extra connection" detailed in the BX DIY site, I take a spare panel connector, put it in the indicated position, and then cut the trailing wire to size, looping it under the relevant bolt/washer and tightening it in.

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Post by DLM » Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:41 pm

I had to cut that short as my public access internet session was running out. BX DIY essentially has all the information you need, and the job is pretty straightforward, so long as the sender unit you swap in is well-matched to the temp gauge you put in. If there's anything else you need, Roscoe, please post.

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Post by roscoe » Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:16 pm

Thanks Dave
Have the panel on my workbench along with the printed off instructions from the BX DIY site, so will get to it on the weekend - also have to order a sensor unit as the engine was out of the car I got the panel from.
cheers,
Roscoe
1991 TZD
2004 Peugeot 307
1990 Mitsubishi Express Van - Alpaca Transporter

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Post by davek-uk » Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:42 pm

Report back and let us know how it goes, Roscoe. I'll (hopefully) be doing the job soon! And any help will be much appreciated...
Dave

Xantia 1.9TDLX Estate (97) - 192K@42mpg - Boosted & on vegoil
Berlingo Multispace 2.0 Hdi (04) - 95K - the weekend car
Berlingo Multispace 1.6, 16v (51) - 184K@36mpg - currently ill
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Post by roscoe » Sun Sep 11, 2005 11:47 am

I managed to dissasemble the 'donor' panel today in about 15 minutes - very easy once I figured out how to get the front clear plastic screen off it. Got the gauges out, and using a 12v battery charger and alligator clips, followed the instructions on the BX DIY site to see how to mod my TZD panel - too easy! Also had a couple of the old connectors for the dash, so will use a connector pin from it to provide the required connection for the temp gauge without having to solder anything. Next step will be pulling the panel out of the TZD and replacing the temp lights with the gauge, modifying the wiring for it and seeing if it works....of course that depends on my sensor coming into the dealer this week!
Oh yes, and changing all the dash bulbs while I have the panel out including the ones under the oil level sensor cover I didn't do last time....and burnt out within weeks!
cheers,
Roscoe
1991 TZD
2004 Peugeot 307
1990 Mitsubishi Express Van - Alpaca Transporter

roscoe
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Post by roscoe » Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:14 pm

No more progress on this as the sensor hasn't arrived - dealer can't find any in Australia so apparently coming in from France??? As soon as it comes, I'll finish the job and take pictures as well - should be within a week or so hopefully. I'm going to leave existing speedo head in place in TZD and only swap in temp gauge as I'm not sure if the transmission drive gear is the same for the mph/kmh speedos or if the gearing is done in the speedo head - easiest is to leave it alone!
cheers,
Roscoe
1991 TZD
2004 Peugeot 307
1990 Mitsubishi Express Van - Alpaca Transporter

roscoe
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Post by roscoe » Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:20 pm

OK -did the temp gauge conversion tonight - ended up robbing the sensor out of a 16V 'wreck' I just picked up (previous owner knocked a hole in sump and kept driving it until it 'rattled') - the car is complete and runs fairly well once it has oil in it :? - but that's a job for another day..
I swapped the 105C temp switch in the TZD with the sensor from the 16v, pulled the instrument panel out, took out the right hand panel with the unused top part and temp warning lights on the bottom, swapped in the gauges I got with the other 16V panel, connected everything, tested all the bulbs and replaced a few burnt out ones, and used a spare connector in pin 6 of the 10 pin connector to hook up the single lead from the sensor (single wire on 2 pin connector at bottom of panel. Reinstalled it back in the binnacle (bugger of a job!!), hooked up the battery to test all the lights and found out half of them weren't working :evil: Took the oil level sensor housing off (again) and rechecked those bulbs, plus the ones along the speedo - all OK, so reassembled it and retested - they all worked :?: :?: Put everything back in place, gave it one last check to ensure all the lights were still working (parking brake didn't but wasn't working before - so need to start at the switch end on that one and find out why), and took it out for a drive. Took quite a while for the temp to come up (a km or so but it is pretty cool here tonight), then it sat on about 85C the rest of the time - didn't thrash it to see if it would go higher as my &*%$ rocker cover gasket is spewing oil everywhere - so tomorrow its off with the intercooler and try and reseal it (again). Did it last night with silicone gasket goo, but if anything it's worse now. Anyone got any handy tips for getting those things to seal properly?
I've got some pictures of the temp gauge job but haven't figured out how to post them yet - will do it once I sort that out.
cheers,
Roscoe
1991 TZD
2004 Peugeot 307
1990 Mitsubishi Express Van - Alpaca Transporter

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Post by sleepy0905 » Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:43 pm

my rocker cover kept leaking and nothing would cure it till i replaced the cover that fixed it my top cover had been over tightened and destorted it at some time. :(
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Post by bernie » Sat Oct 08, 2005 6:44 pm

roscoe wrote:OK -did the temp gauge conversion tonight .

Well done, easy was'nt it Roscoe.

And it looks neat and original in the bargain
Just the 0 BX
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1 TD Hurricane being broken up for spares
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Oh and I nearly forgot
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roscoe
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Post by roscoe » Sun Oct 09, 2005 12:25 pm

Yes, sure was Bernie. Thanks for your tips on this job - I'd recommend it for anyone with a BX that has the 'idiot' lights instead of a proper temp gauge - and it also keeps the car original looking...as long as you don't look too closely at the oil temp gauge!.
Took the car out for a good run today and it got up to about 92C or so up a hill working it, other than that, it stayed at about 85-88C all the time - plus I now have PIECE OF MIND!! :D
Rechecked my rocker cover today and most of the oil is from the breather tube - it has perished and split where it pushes onto the cover, so I taped it up with electrical tape and reclamped it. Since it's another Citroen 'special' with different sizes on each end, I'll have to try and make one up as I have no chance of getting one here - didn't get Cit. diesels in Australia.
cheers,
Roscoe
1991 TZD
2004 Peugeot 307
1990 Mitsubishi Express Van - Alpaca Transporter

roscoe
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Post by roscoe » Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:12 am

I have an interesting update on this. I changed the thermostat on the weekend and also put the new temp sensor into the TZD, flushed and refilled the coolant. Drove it down to Sydney today and it ran at 90C on the freeway when on level ground (120-130kmh), got up to 100C going up some fairly long hills, and cooled down to 85C or so when going down the hills. In the city (stop/start driving) it ran a fairly constant 90C - 95C but the temp gauge is much quicker to go up and down with the new sensor. I stopped at one point when it was reading a hair over 90C and got out and checked the fans - they were both running on low speed. Can't figure out why the change from the old thermostat/sensor - it is now running at least 5C hotter. Although the rad gets hot right to the bottom, I might pull it out and have a local rad shop pull the end caps and clean it out - have no inclination to overheat this thing and have to do the head again!

postscript - it is now running at about the same temps as my 16V on the same kind of driving - figured the diesel should run a bit cooler than that.
cheers,
Roscoe
1991 TZD
2004 Peugeot 307
1990 Mitsubishi Express Van - Alpaca Transporter

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Post by DLM » Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:37 pm

Sounds like the thermostat isn't doing what it ought to - could it have been sitting on the shelf for a while before you bought it? After all, if the fans are coming on then that's a reasonable indication your new sensor is not telling lies. This holds so long as the fan switch is the original TD one which comes on at just above 90-degrees.
Relying on two wheels and musclepower since the last BX (or any car) had to go.

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Post by roscoe » Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:08 pm

Yes, I've had the thermostat hanging around for at least a year, and don't know how long it was on the shelf at the parts place before that - bought it on one of my trips to NZ last year. The fan switch is the correct TD one - replaced it with a new one from GSF about a year ago just to be on the safe side. Might go back to the old thermostat again and see how it goes..problem is getting the bloody internal snap ring out - broke two sets of snap ring pliers already on it. Had to resort to a pair of sidecutters and fine screwdrivers to pry it out.
At least the temp gauge and sensor seem to be fairly accurate now as they are quicker to move and seem to in agreement with the fan switch.
With the much higher average temperatures here, what would be the risk of running without a thermostat - I know it would take the engine a lot longer to get up to operating temp. but it should stabilize somewhere around the 70-80C mark I expect. Even in mid winter, it only gets down to +5 or so at night and mid teens in day, plus this car isn't my daily driver anymore.
cheers,
Roscoe
1991 TZD
2004 Peugeot 307
1990 Mitsubishi Express Van - Alpaca Transporter