the dreaded heavy steering

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mnde
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Post by mnde » Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:33 pm

:?:

I fear we're going off course here: I was talking about tightening the hydraulic pump belt, not the alt belt.

Cheers,

Mark.
1982 Citroen GSA Spécial Estate
1997 Renault Mégane RT 1.4e
1991 Citroen BX16 TGS Meteor - gone to Scotland

ellevie
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Post by ellevie » Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:41 pm

DLM wrote:This site was/is one of the best-illustrated you'll find anywhere -to get to the root english-language section go to http://www.mars.dti.ne.jp/~ynar/bxorg_a ... dex-e.html
Yes it's a great site, I hope it doesn't disappear. It's probably worth taking a backup of it in case it does vanish.
mnde wrote:I fear we're going off course here: I was talking about tightening the hydraulic pump belt, not the alt belt.
The rectangular lug circled in blue is part of the hydraulic pump belt tensioner, so pulling on this rotates the tensioner and tightens the belt.
David

BX19TRS 118K E Reg 1992-2008
BX19TRS auto abs 96k F Reg
BX19TXD 150k K Reg

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BX Bandit
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Post by BX Bandit » Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:37 pm

and while im at it will find bandit a nice fluffy welsh rescue sheep (hard liquor and soft baaas), to soothe his snot away

charlie
That'll do nicely mate, bung her in the post could you? :lol: :lol: Good luck with Euro motors, sorry I can't help mate..keep us posted!!
have some balls
1990 BX 16V Platinum Grey
1990 BX TZD (with A/C) Pink
1990 BX TGD White
2003 Audi A6 2.5 TDi
1960 Morris Minor Clarondon Grey
1971 Triumph 2000 Auto Valencia Blue

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mnde
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Post by mnde » Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:07 pm

ellevie wrote:
DLM wrote:This site was/is one of the best-illustrated you'll find anywhere -to get to the root english-language section go to http://www.mars.dti.ne.jp/~ynar/bxorg_a ... dex-e.html
Yes it's a great site, I hope it doesn't disappear. It's probably worth taking a backup of it in case it does vanish.
mnde wrote:I fear we're going off course here: I was talking about tightening the hydraulic pump belt, not the alt belt.
The rectangular lug circled in blue is part of the hydraulic pump belt tensioner, so pulling on this rotates the tensioner and tightens the belt.
Ah, sorry!! :oops:

Well I never, you learn something new every day - now I've looked at that link I see what's going on, but I never knew of that lug before!! Like I said I usually apply pressure directly to the pulley hub using a long handled rubber mallet upside down. That Japanese method looks ingenious... and I really should get one of those offset wrenches. The ratchet box spanner is just too heavy to dangle down from above and it keeps falling off the bolts :evil:

Mark.
1982 Citroen GSA Spécial Estate
1997 Renault Mégane RT 1.4e
1991 Citroen BX16 TGS Meteor - gone to Scotland

ellevie
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Post by ellevie » Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:20 am

Yes, once you know about that lug & spanner trick, it really becomes a much easier task. It's nearly a year now since I did both my BXs and it's difficult to recall the exact details. I seem to remember that the bottom of the two bolts which acts as the pivot for the jockey/ tensioner is the problem one. The top bolt can be just about accessed with an ordinary spanner to lock the tensioner when the correct tension has be applied. I manage to do the bottom bold "blindly" by lying on the ground and putting my left arm up from underneath and feeling around for the bolt. On one of my BXs I had to file off a slight burr from the lug in order to make the 17mm spanner fit the lug. The spanner is quite a tight fit and needs to be tapped on with a hammer, but this is good as it holds it securely in place.

David
David

BX19TRS 118K E Reg 1992-2008
BX19TRS auto abs 96k F Reg
BX19TXD 150k K Reg

ellevie
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Post by ellevie » Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:42 am

ellevie wrote:I thread a rope through the ring of the spanner and pass it out through the front of the car and tie it to a roof batten to apply some serious leverage.
As I come to think of it, the roof batten is a bit of an overkill; it was something I used before I read about the lug & spanner method. I can get sufficient leverage with the spanner and I just tie the rope to the front of the car to hold the tension until I have tightened the tensioner bolts.
David

BX19TRS 118K E Reg 1992-2008
BX19TRS auto abs 96k F Reg
BX19TXD 150k K Reg

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charlie
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Post by charlie » Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:28 pm

right first the good news, car has just flown through its mot!!!

new middle exhaust box, two advisories sweet!!!

the bad news is, and hang on to your hats cause i feel a rant coming on, is those plonkers down at european :evil:

used these people before mind, and talked to them lately over the heavy steering, so i phoned them up wednesday and conversation went as follows...

me....ive changed fdv and pump, no mot, no power steering

plonker....id want to change both the pinion valve and ram

me...why both??

plonker....just to make sure, and the connecting pipes as well

me....really??

plonker...250£ labour £150 for ram, £150 for pinion valve £20 for the pipes, vat on top

me...but the ram and pinion from gsf are only £80 each??

plonker...silence

me...hang on i trying to add this all up

plonker...look to be honest id rather not have the work..

me...that figures

plonker...goodbye

me... sorry to have wasted your precious time mate

and fu$king good riddance plonkers, from a citroen garage thats listed on the front of this site, in fact im not even going to waste any more of my time on the twats, they can all just FU$K OFF...

so back to the mot, i got talking about this to some mates at work and one said he thought that lack of power steering was not a mot failure, which got me thinking...

went to a small back street place that ive used before, and asked about the steering. reply was as long as its not leaking should be ok...

they cant be faulted, said that he didnt know enough about the hydraulics to mess himself, which is fair enough, so i just left the car with them...

didnt even worry about what else could be wrong with the car, and it sailed through, as it usually does and im well happy :D

power steering is not fixed of course :roll:

but at least i can take my time over it, along one or two other things that need doing...

charlie
yes.....
the colour is....
guiness white..........

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Post by BX Bandit » Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:03 pm

Thank f&ck they didn't rip you off dude...I felt my heart sink when I read your story but felt a big phew towards the end! So MOT sorted...that's cool mate! At least now you can take your own time in addressing the steering issue. Pinion valve bekons....????....me thinks they f&ckers gringo?
have some balls
1990 BX 16V Platinum Grey
1990 BX TZD (with A/C) Pink
1990 BX TGD White
2003 Audi A6 2.5 TDi
1960 Morris Minor Clarondon Grey
1971 Triumph 2000 Auto Valencia Blue

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docchevron
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Post by docchevron » Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:53 am

Lucky bu&&er! Mine failed for the PAS not working....

Fixed it in the end though! it was the FDV.

Crack the pipes from the pinion and give the steering a twirl, no fluid? Little fluid? LOTS of fluid?

Again, DO NOT GET UNDER THE CAR UNSUPPORTED.
I'm not big on this health and safety culture that grips the nation, but with oleopnuematic cars, YOU CANNOT BE TOO SAFE!

Cheers
Chris G
Smokes lots, because enough's enough already!

Far too many BX's, a bus, an ambulance a few trucks, not enough time and never enough cash...

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charlie
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Post by charlie » Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:36 pm

cheers chris will do exactly as you suggest 8)

im on lates this week so with any luck will be rolling about under the bx real soon...

charlie
yes.....
the colour is....
guiness white..........

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Oscar
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Post by Oscar » Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:13 pm

http://www.bxclub.co.uk/diy/pinion/

Check this for a thoroughly researched and well-written piece on changing the pinion valve if necessary.
(Red BX 1.7TZD ("Well, it is a style icon" - Tom Sheppard)) "Was", Tom, "was"

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charlie
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Post by charlie » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:05 pm

went down to bandits to pick up some tailgate strutts, which i forgot in the end :roll:

and did as chris suggested, in fact took off the two connecting pipes completely between ram and pinion valve..

but think me and bandit tied each other in knots about what the results were :o

in short, engine running, turning the steering, lhm pissed out all over the place..

so first teaser, what sort of flow should we expect to see from the two holes left in the pinion, lhm gushed out about a foot, but as we had nothing to compare it with didnt know whether this was right, in fact in the end gushed out whether we turned the steering or not..

and even if this was right could pinion still be failing under working pressure..

there seemed to be a lot of debris (not small pieces either) in the fluid but we couldnt really tell if this had washed off bottom of car, or if was the innards of the pinion that had disintegrated or was it this debris that was blocking everything up???

if pinion was ok then lets change the ram over, which we did, bandit had a spare, and still no change, although did we change bad for bad??

so ive got a new fd, new pump, tight belt, a pinion that gushes out, and fitted two used rams..

but as ive used the car since has been a gradual improvement in the steering, not cured by any stretch but its got better..

so my new theory is debris in system/pinion.

if the pinion is clogged up, because of its position being so low down it becomes impossible for the pump to clear this away, comparison is small stone in the toilet, no matter how many times you flush stone does not move out of u bend..

might be wrong again but its what im aiming to be doing next :roll:

gallon of lhm, keep reservoir topped up, take pinion pipes off again and flush pinion valve out, hold breath

must thank out loud bandit for tea, tools, and hands on help, really is just too nice a guy, but am working on him to be more bus driverish in his attitude to the fu$king twats out their, sorry i mean the general public..

charlie
yes.....
the colour is....
guiness white..........

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BX Bandit
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Post by BX Bandit » Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:54 pm

Not sure I can cut the mustard as a bus driver me...I'm too much of a big girls blouse....

Anyway...
in short, engine running, turning the steering, lhm pissed out all over the place..
My drive glows in the dark now! Awesome...had a 747 trying to land last night but I told him to f&ck off...he soon got the message :lol:
have some balls
1990 BX 16V Platinum Grey
1990 BX TZD (with A/C) Pink
1990 BX TGD White
2003 Audi A6 2.5 TDi
1960 Morris Minor Clarondon Grey
1971 Triumph 2000 Auto Valencia Blue