ALTERNATIVE FUEL'S?

MULLEY · Post by **MULLEY** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:57 pm

Hoping someone(s) can either advise or give their own experiences on this. I am partially aware that older diesel engines seem to be capable of running on chip oil, etc....

Can any of the bx's do this, are there any modifications required & what is the best blend or type of fuel concoction available.

Reason for asking was that on 5th Gear last night they did a feature on this but on an old Merc 250d, which seemed to be ok with chip oil.

Stewart (oily!) · Post by **Stewart (oily!)** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:03 pm

Unfortunately many BX diesels have fuel pumps made by Lucas/Rotodiesel, the seals in these pumps can be attacked by Vegoil/Biodiesel, what you need to locate is one with a Bosch fuel pump then all will be well, I have run lucas pumped cars on vegoil and got away with it but maybe Im lucky?
Stewart

Ian_Fearn · Post by **Ian_Fearn** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:27 pm

I have written a 10,000 word dissitation on alternative fuels. The Lucas/CAV/Rotodiesel pump relies on the relatively thin diesel fuel to lubricate the pump head.

The higher viscosity of veggie oil means the head doesnt get lubricated and will in time wear out.

That said though i know of loads of people running vegetable oil without any form of preheating with a Lucas pump and have had no trouble.

I used rather a lot in my old Golf TD but that had a bosch pump. I used upto 80% vegetable oil during the summer but i found very quickly the injecters gummed up and starting became a problem.

All the website recommend you start with a lowish mix, say 10% and then work up from there.

tim leech · Post by **tim leech** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:43 pm

If anyone saw that pretty poor 5th gear programme trying to get as hip as Topgear and failing last night they ran a 200000 miles merc 250D on chip fat with no mods and just filled it up and drove it and it did 300 miles without a hiccup. It proves it works.

Did smell like a fish shop on wheels though!

Diesels messy enough without getting used chip fat all over yourself, I will stick to filling up at tescos thanks!

Stewart (oily!) · Post by **Stewart (oily!)** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:48 pm

Fifth gear did probably start off with a warm engine though, and most likeley the best part of a gallon of dinosaur diesel in the lines and pump, pouring Harry Ramsdens leftovers straight in would very likely result in clogged fuel filters rather prematurely and also very hesitant cold starting. too little too late journalistically.
Stewart

sleepy0905 · Post by **sleepy0905** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:21 pm

I ran my old TGD with a Lucas pump on veg oil for 2 years with no problems at times it was as much as 95% veg oil.

Stewart (oily!) · Post by **Stewart (oily!)** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 6:02 pm

Yes but did you use old oil complete with fishbits?
Stewart

sleepy0905 · Post by **sleepy0905** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 6:12 pm

well i used new and i also used old which was filtered twice through a cottom lined filter (old babygrow)

MULLEY · Post by **MULLEY** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:39 pm

Hmm, so its as clear as mud then, some people have used veg oil without any probs, but only for a period of time before offloading the car?

Has anyone else had any experience of perhaps using a mixture of diesel & veg oil to try & avoid damaging the pump.

Just out of interest how long would it take to knacker the pump if veg oil was used? & how much would a replacement pump cost?

Gundging up injectors was mentioned, that doesnt sound good, when that happens can they be cleaned? & again how much.

I guess what i am trying to work out is, does the amount of damage/wear & tear caused by using veg oil, still make it cheaper than using conventional diesel?

Anyone else had a dabble with anything more exotic than veg oil?

Thanks for all the posts so far on this.

Post by **docchevron** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:10 am

We ran some old buses on rape seed oil a few years back very sucessfully but it only worked in GARDNER lumps (the inj. pump is lubricated by engine oil).

We then tried running some modified Cummins engined buses on gas. Blew up an engine every other month and all have now been converted back to DERV.

I've never thought of running my TD on anything other than DERV really, even at current prices the MPG is so good I dont worry about it.

My old coach (also GARDNER engine) will run on almost anything that combusts! Duno how long it'd last on AVGAS though!

Theres lots of interesting development going on at the mo but lets face it, if everyone was running their cars on veg oil the government would tax the hell out of it and a bag of chips from the local chippy would cost £100!

Anyone remember the CERAMIC engine?? Now thats the way ahead!
Except OPEC buried it.... cant imagine why....

Cheers
Chris G

citroen7 · Post by **citroen7** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:54 am

Jeremy vine did a spot on this subject a few months ago and one chap rang in to say that he put a quarter tank of derv and filled it up with veg oil straight from the shelf in tescos
I have downloaded quite a bit of info on making bio diesel from used cooking oil and will probably have a go over the winter at making a few gallons, as i have a free supply of used oil from the school kitchen!

MULLEY · Post by **MULLEY** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:15 pm

PM'd citroen7

whilst the site was out of action.

MULLEY · Post by **MULLEY** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:20 pm

docchevron1472, the govt currently charge duty on veg oil if you use it for fuel, its 27p a litre i think? Anyone want to correct me on that one?

Quite how they could enforce it though is beyond me. I know if you get caught using Red diesel u r in trouble, but can the coppers actually do anything if they find a concoction of fuels in your tank?

Anyone any thoughts on this? Anyone been caught out yet?

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:40 pm

Avoiding fuel duty along with any other tax in this country is more serious than murdering your granny or somebody elses for that matter. The authorities concerned have no sense of humour and treat their task very seriously.

You may have seen Customs and Excise mobile fuel testing vans around - usually transit type vans with rather ungainly box bodywork painted dark blue - and while they used to catch people using rebated (pink agricultural diesel or heating fuel) I'm sure they will now think their mission is to catch those who use any other source - which I'm sure is not difficult to detect on analysis.

I believe they also have authority to forfeit the vehicle, as well as prosecute. This is not a fixed penalty offence.

Captain Slow · Post by **Captain Slow** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:12 pm

You can have your car crushed if its found to be running on chip oil according to an artical I saw a while ago. It was on the BBC site from 2002, I will try to find it.