Testify.........

BX Bandit · Post by **BX Bandit** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:56 pm

To all whom hold the Bosch TD system, I can testify to the link below
http://dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/more_power/Power_ve.htm

I have done:
Low manifold pressure (boost) fuel delivery adjustment: 2 turns clockwise
Full load fuel delivery rate adjustment:approx 120 degrees
AFC Star Wheel Adjustment: + 2 turns clockwise

It does make a significant difference. There is more in 'turbo lag land' and much more at motorway cruising speed. The improvement is such that she pulls stronger thro' the revs as opposed to utter gutts. A worthwhile hour or so tinkering and all for free........well, mpg may suffer but I'll keep you posted. Highly recommended to all.

Seriously tho', anyone see a downside apart from consumption? How about engine longevity on these 1.7TDs?

adamskibx · Post by **adamskibx** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:29 pm

Longetivity is bound to suffer. I remember when I had to fix a leak on the Boch pump of my old estate. Initially, I didnt get the position of the throttle spindle in relation to accelerator lever right. I thought I had, but the adjustment make by just one spline is massive. I ended up fidling with the max fueling screw to get the idleing right. It started idleing at the right speed, but I came to drive off, and it was like I was towing a tugboat it was that slow. So I reinvestigated and found out that it was the throttle spindle I had got wrong. I adjusted that to the point where it just about started to have an effect on the revs in the accelerator off position. Drove off, and my god did it fly!! It was literlally like a 1.9 petrol, not a N/A diesel. I had a bit of fun then thought better of it after a drive round the block as I really couldnt afford to change cars at the time!

Geoffrey Gould · Post by **Geoffrey Gould** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:22 pm

It does make a difference and a bit of difference to fuel consumption as it's bound to, if you have got it you tend to use it. The 1-7 seems to be a very tough engine and sweeter than the 1-9.
Be it on your own head but if you want to try something that really really does make a difference both sheer pulling and throttle response wize then a 2-1 bosch pump and injectors does the job.
Remember to turn the max fueling screw down (out) for the M O T otherwize the tester will have you good and propper.
Ask Chris who turned the max screw down and the max RPM down as well, it passed the M O T but only just managed to pull away from the garage, which was on a hill. Over did it a bit , would have been overtaken by a milk float.
Cheers. Geoff.

Post by **docchevron** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:40 am

You could always do what I did!! Did longevity suffer, er, slightly 3200 miles and the engines probably trashed but by god when it went, it went like the wind!! and still returned 55MPG on a run and 48 round town.
sadly it now uses 90 gallons of coolant every other minute!
Something else to fix......... This time I'm gona stuff the Garret T3 water cooled turbo in it and blow 2bar, that'll test just how strong the bottom end is!!!!!

Cheers
Chris G

BX Bandit · Post by **BX Bandit** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:17 am

if you have got it you tend to use it

That is my problem - I spent the afternoon flooring it.

I should heed the advice of Adamski and set it all back but thats like promising yourself a night off the

- it just aint gonna happen. Have you got problems with yours then Chris? I suppose I could 'borrow' the 2.1 pump etc from the Xantia but thats one sure way not to keep the missus sweet

Would you not put a 1.9 TD in yours Chris - is there much involved in doing that?

Post by **docchevron** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:32 pm

I'm having a few issues with mine mate yeah! It's hoofing coolant out the side of the head with alarming ease!!!!

Fitting a 1.9TD is a straight swap but the 17 is a sweeter engine and less prone to head gasket troubles.... ok, I know mines currently cooked but thats cos it's tuned to hell and I've abused it

.

I'm seriousley considering having a cast iron head made for it. The main reason head gaskets are prone to failure is the alloy head that expands at a different rate to the block due to the differing metals.

For now though I'll repair what I've got and maybe turn the wick down on the turbo (abit!).

PM sent regarding voyage to Southampton Mr. Bandit!!

Cheers
Chris G

Stewart (oily!) · Post by **Stewart (oily!)** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:21 pm

I am running a little extra boost and fuel on the 1.9 and economy doesnt seem bothered at all, theres an improvement in pulling power right from the off, I could go for more boost but the thing seems so sweet to drive that there currently doesnt seem to be a downside, a mate went boost crazy last year and blew up about three engines in as many months (bottom end!) though perhaps just a little more

Stewart

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:38 pm

Why should a 2.1 pump improve power? Diesels work on the principle of free air - which means that there should always be a surplus of air to fuel to get complete combustion. Accordingly the induction is unregulated - and the thing produces as much power as it can for the fuel injected. The limiting factor is the amount of oxygen available - so put more in with a pump - and it'll burn more fuel and produce more power.

The pumps are adjustable - and have devices to respond to turbo boost and deliver more fuel when more air is available.

Surplus fuel doesn't burn fully - and is blown out as the familiar black soot.

Your pump can be adjusted for fuel delivery in various phases - acceleration, max fuel etc - and there are instructions elsewhere on how to do it - but if you want max power from a steady speed engine (like a boat) its just a matter of opening the max fuel delivery (and additional fuel device if a turbo) until it starts to black smoke then backing it off a touch until it runs clear.

Geoffrey Gould · Post by **Geoffrey Gould** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 9:36 am

Jeremy hello, you asked why a 2-1 pump should make a difference well possibly because the injectors break at 20 bar higher pressure and have a bigger hole diameter, I dont know/havnt checked about any differences in the pump advance characteristics.
It was the question of replacing a worn Lucas with a new Bosch that was to hand. I can only say that there was absolutely no lag and the response to any throttle input was imediate from idle, the kind of crisp response of a petrol with the torque of a diesel and then some. So much so that the first time I went to overtake someone in a hurry two things happened 1 nearly climed into his boot 2 spun the wheels in 2nd and probably would have in 3rd if I had kept my boot in. Dry road, 6 j's and good tyres.

It was a suck it and see job and just lucky it was a 2-1 pump and injectors. It worked.
Cheers.
Geoff.

BX Bandit · Post by **BX Bandit** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:52 pm

Is there much difference between the 1.7td and 1.9td engines then Oily - Torque and HP? I've always wondered what a bx would be like with the 1.9td. Is it the same engine as ZX/306/Xantia/ Was there much involved in swapping the engines? A gearbox to match or does the orig gearbox with the 1.7td work ok? How about drive shafts? Sorry ofr so many questions but I've always been interested in a 1.9td upgrade....

Post by **docchevron** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 9:02 pm

Wouldn't bother mate. the 17td is a much sweeter engine and can be tuned to hell and back (as I have done with, er, mixed results!).

It's a straight swop, the torque is better on a 19 but the power difference is negligable IIRC.

The box will bolt straight to it and the shafts are the same (although, if you're gona tune it I'd use proper 16v shafts (not the cr£p GSF sell you as TD/16V)).

Stick with the 17TD, The heads port well (triple angle valves!!!), wapping a high lift, long duration cam gives it more bottom end torque and more top end power, and of course a GARRET T2 blowing 1.5 bar (ish), full boost at 1500rpm

.

Or once I've perfected mine I'll do you a kit to run a water cooled GARRET T3 turbo...

If I can get it to work and not blow the engine through the bonnet!!!

Cheers
Chris G (I know, I know, I should stay in more!)

Kitch · Post by **Kitch** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 9:48 pm

Good tune, that

MULLEY · Post by **MULLEY** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:45 pm

Does anyone know if you can supercharge a diesel rather than using a turbo?

Stewart (oily!) · Post by **Stewart (oily!)** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:59 pm

Its quite possible to supercharge one, its just the hardware, very interested in the 2.1 pump idea, does it really make a 1.7 go that well!
Stewart
the 1.9 motor swap is very straighforward, if you have the original 1.7 motor to hand then everything you need is right there.
Stewart

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:58 pm

The problem with the supercharger is that it takes considerable power to drive it. Look at it this way - a 1.7 probably puts out 55 - 60 BHP in standard form without a turbocharger - and if your supercharger takes 10 BHP(which it could easily) you've got to gain quite a lot to get to where you started.

The other problem is the lack of room at the cambelt end of the engine to make a drive.

If you want to go fast - get a petrol engine that revs decently

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Testify.........

Testify.........

Tuning.