Bosch......

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Bosch......

Post by BX Bandit » Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:44 am

Does anyone have a TD with bosch pump? If so, or if anyone is in the know, what is the length of movement on the timing advance device found on the front of the pump?
Mine doesn't move at all but if I leave it disconnected, it coughs on start up. If I connect it to advance timing to avoid coughing, the timing stays advanced which I assume is not ideal????
The actual lever has a travel of about 25mm but I cant see the device moving that much, in which case, which is the correct position for this lever when hot/when cold? :?: :?: :?: :x
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Post by cauchoiskev » Sat Oct 21, 2006 8:28 am

When the engine is completely cold, the cable should be tight, i.e. the lever should be fully against the spring pressure. When hot, the cable should release the lever by about 6mm.

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Post by BX Bandit » Sat Oct 21, 2006 5:27 pm

Thanks cauchoiskev, is that definitely the timing advance rather than the cold start accelerator which just picks the revs up until hot. That too moves by approx 6mm. I don't mean to sound pedantic but the two seem to be often confused.
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1990 BX 16V Platinum Grey
1990 BX TZD (with A/C) Pink
1990 BX TGD White
2003 Audi A6 2.5 TDi
1960 Morris Minor Clarondon Grey
1971 Triumph 2000 Auto Valencia Blue

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Post by cauchoiskev » Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:31 am

Yep, it was the cold start cable I was talking about. My error. Sorry mate, don't have the figures for the other lever off hand.

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Post by Geoffrey Gould » Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:34 pm

Hi This I realise is not much help but my unit has not worked as long as I have had it, I have tried holding it off the stop but it does not seem to do anything. The lever on the back of the pump was adjusted for tickover and locked off as this didnt work either. :roll: If it's very cold then a little throttle at start, otherwise thats, it no problems.
Cheers.
Geoff.
1991 BX 1-7 td Auto.


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Post by BX Bandit » Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:42 pm

I'm a stickler for all things mechanical to work properly - it really bugs me :x There don't seem to be many people who have the Bosch pump who can shed light on this device. I am considering replacing it with a solenoid which I think will be simple enough but its making sure I buy the right solenoid to fullfill the purpose properly.
As Chris said when I spoke to him about this when he came over the water, these type of devices only travel a few mm.

If I disconnect the thing altogether, the car is a complete bu**er to start, and needs about 4 attempts before it finally runs and clears the coughing fit.
The lever on the back of the pump was adjusted for tickover and locked off as this didnt work either.


Which lever do you mean Geoff?
have some balls
1990 BX 16V Platinum Grey
1990 BX TZD (with A/C) Pink
1990 BX TGD White
2003 Audi A6 2.5 TDi
1960 Morris Minor Clarondon Grey
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Post by Stewart (oily!) » Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:00 pm

I think mines siezed too, I have idle at 1000rpm constantly, I have a new waxstat thing in the garage for when I get around to it..........
BX Bandit whats your tickover speed like?
TZD 19 TD one of the few
Xantia Td estate, going soft

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Post by BX Bandit » Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:26 pm

Tickover is about 850 its not the waxstat though, the one which fits in the thermostat housing. This brings in a faster idle until the engine is warm. That works as it should.

The device I'm having trouble with is fitted on the front side and to the right of the fuel pump (mounted on bracket bolted onto right hand end of pump)when looking into the engine bay. It has its own coolant feed and works on the same principal as the waxstat (expansion when hot) to advance the timing until the engine is sufficiently hot. (I think the rotodeisel did this via a small electrovalve or solenoid which was operated by the thermostat waxstat).

So, it doesn't affect revs, just timing when cold. Without it, the car is difficult to start and with it connected to give cough free start, it's not easing off when hot. So my concern is running the engine with the timing permanently advanced and what damage this may do to the engine long term (or possibly performance/consumption side effects)
have some balls
1990 BX 16V Platinum Grey
1990 BX TZD (with A/C) Pink
1990 BX TGD White
2003 Audi A6 2.5 TDi
1960 Morris Minor Clarondon Grey
1971 Triumph 2000 Auto Valencia Blue

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Lever.

Post by Geoffrey Gould » Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:31 pm

Hello BX Bandit Sorry mate I may have been a little misleading when I said the lever on the back of the pump as it is actually on the side of pump facing the block. It's the one that is worked by the waxstat on the thermostat housing. I have never yet had one that worked consistently, so I slacken off the cable, set the tickover when its hot and lock the lever with the two set screws, so that it cant move. If it effected the starting at all then I would have replaced it. Because the thing held the tickover fast sometimes it did two things, used extra fuel and made it a bit awkward as it is a automatic. The long lever on the front of the pump does not appear to alter anything, there is no problem starting, it does not miss or stumble.or smoke if it comes to that.
It is not a new engine by any means as it uses the old hex. head bolts.
Cheers.
Geoff.
I will try to be more accurate next time. I do apreciate the matter of things that should be right.
1991 BX 1-7 td Auto.


I MAY NOT BE ALWAYS RIGHT BUT I AM
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Post by docchevron » Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:41 am

There are more Bosch pumps without the lecer than with! Later pumps had electrovalves. The idea is indeed to alter the pump timing when the engine is cold, however if the lever cant be made to work properly you can disconnect it completely and just advance the static pump timing by a very, very small degree and it should start fine even on the coldest mornings and have bu&&er all effect (adverse) when hot.

Cheers
Chris G
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Post by BX Bandit » Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:42 pm

There are more Bosch pumps without the lecer than with!
erm whats lecer :?: I assume then the electrovalve would be a straight swap...but from what car ?

I like the idea if turning the pump a wee bit but why didn't Citroen/Bosch do this instead of faffing about with this silly device?
have some balls
1990 BX 16V Platinum Grey
1990 BX TZD (with A/C) Pink
1990 BX TGD White
2003 Audi A6 2.5 TDi
1960 Morris Minor Clarondon Grey
1971 Triumph 2000 Auto Valencia Blue

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Post by Stewart (oily!) » Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:53 pm

Swapped a bosch pump on my mates Xantia last weekend, the original pump had a device on the front with a wire attached to something that resembles a stop solenoid, the other end of the blob has some steel pipe coming off and going into pump body? replacement pump was otherwise identical but did not have this, it runs fine :)
Stewart
TZD 19 TD one of the few
Xantia Td estate, going soft

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Post by BX Bandit » Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:04 am

Thanks oily, that sounds like a solenoid I suppose. Could you get a photo and email me, I'll see if it might work on mine. Is it available for some tokens?? I'm coming to the conclusion that I may just do as Doc suggested, I've never checked the timing as it came off a donor car and seemed ok. The other thing to do is rig up a bolt or studding and adjust until it runs ok.
have some balls
1990 BX 16V Platinum Grey
1990 BX TZD (with A/C) Pink
1990 BX TGD White
2003 Audi A6 2.5 TDi
1960 Morris Minor Clarondon Grey
1971 Triumph 2000 Auto Valencia Blue

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Post by docchevron » Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:46 am

Stewart (oily!) wrote: the original pump had a device on the front with a wire attached to something that resembles a stop solenoid, the other end of the blob has some steel pipe coming off and going into pump body?
Stewart
Thats the fella! It replaced the mechanical arm setup. IIRC David Rutherford is a bit of an expert on these things.....

Cheers
Chris G
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Far too many BX's, a bus, an ambulance a few trucks, not enough time and never enough cash...

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Post by Stewart (oily!) » Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:27 pm

Bandit, its still in the garage attached to the dead pump, i will remove it at the weekend if you like, its yours for the postage, i only kept the pump to dissect.
Stewart
TZD 19 TD one of the few
Xantia Td estate, going soft