Please I need help before I ruin my car!!

[Kingswell]

My manual choke bx 14tge is great but im still very frustrated by its mechanical problems. They are ruining a very good car. Plus they could be dangerous.
It would make my day if someone can solve either of these problems for me!

Starting problem - In the morning (when the engine is cold) the car starts fine, I give it half choke and drive off straight away slowly pushing in the choke as I go. The rest of the drive is smooth and comfortable like the BX should be. The problem starts later on in the day. When I try and start the car the engine is making a very unhealthy sound, sort of like its not firing on all cylinders. In fact it won't even be able to raise the supension if I dont press the gas pedal a bit. If I try and let it idle a while it switches off. If I try to drive off, the car stars to jerk violently, loses power and then switches off. This can happen at any point in the journey. The choke has no effect as far as I can tell. I also tried to start it with the bonnet open but all it did was make this happen later. Its really frustrating since I cant move at all whilst its having these fits and I have to roll it to the side and put my hazards on. Jeremy suggested that this could be a hot starting problem and he suggested I leave the bonnet open owing to excessive under bonnet heat.

Suspension problem - I have an LHM near the back axle roughly in the centre of the chassis. The mechanic is apparently waiting for a part that needs to be replaced to stop the leak. In the meantime I decided to try the LHM sucked up through the hoses on the strut trick since they are always staying up when I'm parked and go down once I push them or sit in the car. I went to find the hoses on one of the wheels and realized that one of the hoses wasn't connected! It seems to me that its been cut a bit short. I don't know if its the same story on the other side. Is this the mechanic's doing?

I'd be very grateful if anyone has any insight into these problems.

[ken newbold]

Not sure about your first problem, but the second one sounds like you are waiting for a new height corrector as your old one is leaking or it's return pipe is split and leaking.
The front strut return pipes do rot and then break off, this is common and you need to replace it otherwise you could end up with LHM everywhere including on the brake discs.

[ellevie]

From what you say I don't think the problem is with your choke.

I once had a heat related problem which I eventually traced to poor electrical continuity in one of the connectors in the ignition circuit. These connectors are old now and will have become tarnished with age and may have lost some of the springiness which they rely on to make good contact. In my BX19TRS there are 3 plug&socket connectors in addition to the 4 spade connectors on the ignition coil. The 3 plug&socket connectors carry a signal from the distributor to the ignition amplifier which is on the bulkhead behind and below the coil. The heat related problem was the first one mounted on the side of the distributor. Open all 3 of these connectors up and apply some WD40 and then push the plugs in and out a few times to try and clean the contacts. Do the same to the 4 spade connectors on the coil. If you know how to use a resistance meter then see if you can confirm good continuity from the distributor to the amplifier. Who knows you might get lucky and this could turn out to be the problem. It looks like you could do with a bit of luck.
So good luck Kingswell !

P.S.
The description above refers to my BX19TRS which has a radically different engine compartment layout to the BX14TGE. Hopefully with the aid of the diagram below you will be able to identify similar parts on your car. All four groups of connectors should be cleaned. There is also a metal clip on the big connector to the amplifier which will need to be released. At one time or another I have solved ignition problems by cleaning or replaceing all the connectors except the medium one.

[jeremy]

For carburrettors have a look at the official Citroen manual - on this site for download.

http://www.rwbsmith.plus.com/citroen2/

The reason I suggested leaving the bonnet open was to try and eliminate vaporisation problems which can occur. You say 'all it did was make it happen later'

Isn't this of some significance? What happens now?

[Kingswell]

I n all fairness, I only tried leaving the bonnet open once. The effect it had could have simply been due to the weather conditions since these seem to affect the problem.
Yesterdy I looked at the problem anew. I decided to experiment with the choke a bit more. If I pul the choke out a certain distance before going anywhere the problem doesn't occour. However the amount that it has to be pulled out has to be precise and so does the amount that it has to be pushed in whilst driving. So I'm thinking that maybe it is the choke.

If the problem is electric, how come this only usually happens during the first part of the journey and not constantly. I have some lubrciating fluid, if provided with photos of the connections that your talking about I will try cleaning them anyway.

Also what do you think of installing an automatic choke?

Thanks you are all very helpful.

[jeremy]

If its working properly it should start when hot and run without problems.

I'm trying to help you get some idea before you start dismantling. Carburettors are not easy things to dismantle and get back together again without problems and if you touch it you will probably need a gasket kit at the very least.

I think you'll find that the carb is affected by a number of outside factors including the state of the engine vent hoses - which must be clean and firmly attached (ie clipped as they will have softened by now) Some systems are designed to cause a crankcase vacuum - so leakeages will affect the system considerably.

Vaporisation problems can be caused by poor pipe routing. To keep them cool the pipes should be routed in the coolest available parts of the engine bay - ie round the edge with short runs to the carb preferably from the outside. Is your supply pipework original or has it been replaced and re-routed?

I had a Renault 21 that always suffered from this problem - and think that later Renaults had a modification to cure it - which may have been more shielding or heat deflectors (Aluminium sheet!)

What happens is that the fuel evaporates in the pipes and pumps and things don't pump gas well - so you have a fuel shortage. Once you can get the fuel to flow it cools down and all is ok while the temperature stays down.

The ignition coils can also give problems I think and could also be affected by heat. If its getting full fuel but bad sparks - the fuel has to go somewhere so I'd look for smelly exhaust and banging in the exhaust. Something might show up on a strobe light if you have one.

[Kingswell]

I have already used a carb cleaner. If need be ill remove the carb and give it a proper soaking in some cleaning solution. Regarding hoses, I have this one hose which looks really loose and brittle on the front of the engine that leads into the air filter. Should I start by changing this?

[img]http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p308 ... G_2061.jpg

Its the silver hose that leads to the temperature selector switch for the air filter.
As far as I know the pipework is with the original layout, but I'll have to ask to make sure.[/img]

[Geoffrey Gould]

Hi the silver 'cardboard' tube I assume takes hot air from the exhaust manifold to stop the carb from iceing up, if this is missing/damaged then it can upset matters.
Iceing up will stop the engine untill it thaws out and then off you go again. Just a thought as you mentioned the tube.
Cheers.
Geoff.

[Kingswell]

Ok then I will replace the tube even though with my climate there shouldn't be too much of a problem with ice. I dont think its too expensive.

I'm going to check the air filter again. This could have something to do with the problem since the car operates in a dusty environment.

Also, to stop the fuel from evaporating, can I add a switch parallel to the thermostat so that I can start the fan motor when I start the car?

[jeremy]

You can add the switch and it might work. Just be careful it can't be left running - or you will come back to a flat battery.

You shouldn't need the winter setting - but if its set to winter in hot conditions - your engine will be breathing very hot air!

[Kingswell]

Thanks jeremy and everyone else.

Here is what I am going to try:
replacing cardboard tube
Switch for fan
electrical connections
check pipe routes

Hope one of these things will work!!

[AlanS]

Having owned petrol Cits, particularly CXs & BXs for the past 22 years, I personally feel that this is just a small maintenance problem that gets to them all.
I was told years ago that Citroens use a material in their fuel lines that begins to degrade from about 8 years old onwards and this becomes like a black powder which gets into the carby. From experience, I've found that when cars begin to carry on like this, that this stuff and moisture accumulation is the cause.
Get the carby blown out with compressed air. Firstly the jets then the holes they screw into.
Fit a fairly large fuel filter to the fuel line before it goes into the fuel pump. I used to use one for a Subaru, a metal one and another between the pump and carby. In the case of the second one, just a small disposable type will do, but don't use a small one for the one before the pump; not big nor efficient enough. That should solve most of the running issues.
If you find it's still being a bit piggy to go after you've stopped and whilst still hot, fit a new needle and seat as I suspect it isn't shutting off properly and is causing the engine to partially flood. It could also be that you may just get away with recalibrating the height of the float which will need to be done if a new one is fitted anyway.
I used to find that the setting were (from memory) (7mm +/- 2mm) but I found here in the warmer climate that it needed to be set at its lowest point (closer to 9mm than 7) and in fact I used to set it until I needed to run with the choke out for the first couple of klms. This meant that once the engine was up to temperature, that there was less chance of the engine running rich as engines can tend to do and as a result, the fuel consumption as well as the performance improved out of sight. I always ran on Premium fuel as I found the extra cost of the PULP over the ULP was more than compensated for in the improvement in fuel consumption let alone the performance.



Alan S

[Kingswell]

Unfortunately, I won't get a chance to try any of this. The car is in a bit of a state after today. Its sitting outside the mechanic till tomorrow.

Yesterday I set off to a party hoping that I would get ther in one piece. All was well for the first 8 or so kms, then it got the shudders and stopped, but it started ok after I waited a while. I got to the hotel and spent the night.
At 8 A.M. I had to leave so I got in the car and turned the key with the choke on. Engine came on and promptly shut itself off again. I waited a few minutes
keeping the engine idling whilst operating the gas and choke to keep it running. I drove off with no problems after that.
1 km in and the shudders nearly threw me out of the seat. It stopped itself. And that plastic piece comig out of the air filter that takes in the air flow at an angle was lying on the road behind me. It stopped itself. Tried to start, nothing, tried waiting then starting, nothing, tried the choke, nothing. Called the breakdown cover and got it towed to the mechanic where apparently it drove perfectly again since I had to park it.

I'm gonna speak to him tomorrow to get a proper diagnosis done. It could be that the main gasket that surrounds the engine oil is leaking and pouring hot oil onto the engine causing it to overheat. In fact that chunk of metal that the hot exhaust gases come out of now has a dent in it.

[ellevie]

If the problem is electric, how come this only usually happens during the first part of the journey and not constantly...

I said that the problem I had was heat related --- electrical connectors can be degraded by the contacts loosing their springiness or by the crimp which grips the wire becoming loose. In either case thermal changes can cause metal expansion or contraction resulting in a change of pressure and hence resistance.

Also what do you think of installing an automatic choke?

I converted my automatic choke to manual by installing a kit --- I much prefer this as it offers much more control. The manual choke is very simple and easily checked by removing the air duct from the top of the carburettor and confirming that the strangler flap goes from fully closed (no visible air gap) to full open (vertical) when the choke button goes from full-out to full-in. You should also be able to see the fast-idle operating the accelerator mechanism as well.

[thanuttiscotsman]

. The problem starts later on in the day. When I try and start the car the engine is making a very unhealthy sound, sort of like its not firing on all cylinders. In fact it won't even be able to raise the supension if I dont press the gas pedal a bit. If I try and let it idle a while it switches off. If I try to drive off, the car stars to jerk violently, loses power and then switches off. This can happen at any point in the journey. The choke has no effect as far as I can tell.

there are only 2 options here really as these cars are simple.! when starting again later in the day you need to use the choke again or your fuel mix needs adjusting. its very easy to do. ive had 4 1.4 tge's my first at 15 yrs old. a couple of them did this.

Suspension problem - ! It seems to me that its been cut a bit short. I don't know if its the same story on the other side. Is this the mechanic's doing?

probally. most normal garages (non citroen) totally fu*k up all hydraulic repairs. ive got mine back before with no power steering after they changed a pipe, seems they plummed the new pipe up wrong.

rossco