BROKEN DOWN!

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tim leech

BROKEN DOWN!

Post by tim leech » Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:29 am

Right guys its not the 16v which is currently residing at Ian Fearns country estate after being repshered! However on the way home from dropping of said BX I was piloting my trusty old Xantia when it failed to proceed!

Pulled out of a slippy junction, wheels started to bounce so I backed off the throttle as im no boy racer, it went 6 feet then died completely, the fuel was a bit low so first idea was a extra gallon of FUEL, NO thats not it, I looked round the engine bay in the cold and the rain :shock: for something that had been shook loose or come off NO, not that either so I accepted defeat and called Alcholics Annonymous, 20 mins later they arrived.

Theres a spark, the fuel is pumping ok, the injectors have power BUT it wont go? the AA man bless him spent a hour trying to get it going but admitted defeat much to his annoyance and it was flat-bedded home the 1.5 miles much to my embarresment and amusement of my neighbours. It broke down at 7:50 and arrived home at 23:20! cold wet and throughly naffed off!

Anyone got a idea, a fuse hasnt blown and it doesnt have a fuel cut off switch? AA man said teh fuels not getting to the fuel rail yet the pumps working ok and the sparks nice and strong. The cars a 1.8i 8v 1994 M if that helps, any suggestion sowuld be appreciated, ive had fuel pressure regulator suggested so far?

jeremy
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Post by jeremy » Sat Nov 11, 2006 11:32 am

I think the convention on these things is that the fuel should only pump while the starter is operated - so unless you operate the starter you won't find any fuel.

Firstly I'd arrange an alternative supply for the fuel pump and see if fuel then is available at the rail. If its not - you say the pump is pumping - check the filter which may be at the back. Don't be tempted to bypass it - if its done its job and collected loads of muck and clogged you will only release more muck into therest of the system. I presume those cheap disposable ones sold in accessory shops have much the same filtering ability as the proper one - but probably are not safe for 36 psi or whatever the output of the pump is (Its a high pressure pump for fuel injection).

When arranging the alternative electrical supply - remember to disconnect the existing supply - as risking feeding into an ECU backwards is not a good idea.

The regulator is after the fuel rail in the circuit and its function is to maintain pressure in the rail and dump the rest into the return circuit. If it fails it will NOT restrict the supply to the rail. If it fails 'open' fuel will be available at the rail but will be low in pressure - and if it fails shut the rail will have full pump output pressure. This doesn't sound like your problem.

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thanuttiscotsman
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Post by thanuttiscotsman » Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:42 pm

hi tim,
same bloody problem my car gives me every few months as you have probally read on the other site. it will be the ignition coil they are very good at fooling you on these cars. they give a little spark so you think they are ok but in fact its not a powerfull enough spark to start and run the car. i was fooled by this for 2 months before my mate convinced me to buy and new one and (just try it mate!). so your options are go to scrappers and get 4 spares for 20 quid or fit a new one for less than 30 inc vat. but i would get one from the scrappers first for 5 quid just to be sure thats the exact problem and it would be good to have a spare in future incase you have the same problem again.

cheers rossco :D :wink:
1989 BX 16v ph1 Chipped, k+N, full scorpion, weber throttle body, NOS 1990 BX 16v ph2
1996 transit 2.5di 80 swb
2006 Suzuki GSR 600cc Fast as F**K!

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No go.

Post by Geoffrey Gould » Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:52 pm

Hi I have had only 1 Xantia and didnt keep it long but it did have a ' crash switch' and from what I read when looking for some info was that they were/are known for failing, looking from the front it was on the left hand side behind the suspension turret.
Having said that it does sound like a low pressure fuel or a blockage, filter or fuel pick up. You did say you were low on fuel may be the 'jumping' stirred up something lying in the bottom of the tank and ------------. I made the mistake of filling up just after the tanker had called at the filling station and caught a load of muck which bunged the fuel filter up a treat, but it was a diesel.
Cheers.
Geoff.
1991 BX 1-7 td Auto.


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thanuttiscotsman
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Re: BROKEN DOWN!

Post by thanuttiscotsman » Sat Nov 11, 2006 1:11 pm

tim leech wrote: AA man said teh fuels not getting to the fuel rail yet the pumps working ok and the sparks nice and strong.
my bad i didnt read that far down! :oops: :roll: well if the fuel isnt getting to the rail then its simple work you way throught the system

first fuel its pumped
then filtered
then enters the rail
then its injected.

so if the pumps going but its not getting to the rail then the failure is in between!! yup big mistake to let your fuel run into the last gallon as you start to suck the shit up which blocks the filter pretty good as its fired in there with a good pressure. get under disconnect the filter pipe on the going to engine side leave it dangling into a bottle or something then turn your key to start position for like hlaf a second then off again. if the bottle has fuel inside then its not the filter if there is no fuel then thats your problem and about 8 quid for a new one. by the way its an easy test to do, my 10 yr old neice could do it.:D

oh i forgot to ad if the pump is like the 16v one then it also filters the fuel in line!! on the 16v the fuel goes through the pump and gets filtered there before it goes into the big filter.

cheers rossco :wink:
1989 BX 16v ph1 Chipped, k+N, full scorpion, weber throttle body, NOS 1990 BX 16v ph2
1996 transit 2.5di 80 swb
2006 Suzuki GSR 600cc Fast as F**K!

tim leech

Post by tim leech » Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:01 pm

We disconnected the main fule pipe to the injection system under the bonnet and it pumped clean fuel no problem when the ignition was turned. The fuel pump is in the t ank apparently on these cars and the fuel filters very close to it, but again the fuels egtting through ok to the front of the car its just not getting through the injectors althought they have power.

Ignition side it has a strong spark at the plugs.

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Post by Way2go » Sat Nov 11, 2006 3:51 pm

To check the injectors (which I had to do on the BX) Unclip the rail from the injectors (de-pressurise first!) pull out the injectors and then replace in the rail with the injectors suspended above the engine orifices. Turn the engine over while watching the injectors and see if you see them all spray.

Incidentally don't be tempted to apply any voltage to them as a test or as an alternative because they are operated by pulses from the ecu and NOT continuous power. Also besides the damage risk to the injectors it is also likely to blow the ecu. (I did enquire once about the cost of a new ecu from citroen and it was £900+ :shock: )
1991 BX19GTi Auto

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thanuttiscotsman
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Post by thanuttiscotsman » Sat Nov 11, 2006 4:08 pm

Way2go wrote: pull out the injectors and then replace in the rail with the injectors suspended above the engine orifices. Turn the engine over while watching the injectors and see if you see them all spray.
thats the difficult way to do it!!! just take out the spark plugs and disconnect the coil pack. when you turn the engine over the fuel mist will spray out the spark plug holes in the firing order.

tim,
you seem to be confusing me with some contradictory info, sorry :oops: :roll: . when you say fuel is getting to the engine bay but not the rail?! surely thats the same place. now going back to my origional post on this thread it could still be the coil even if you see a spark it may not be enough. the easy way to figure this out is basic. yellow spark = coil is fecked very bright blue spark the coild is ok. but must be bright blue!! try that then get back to me.
i know a fair bit about this as i spent over 2 months trying to get my car to start!! so i know loads about the ign system components now. it took me so long because i was convinced coil was ok because i seen a spark but it wasnt a good enough spark.

it will not be your injectors because the odds of them all failing at the same time must be at least 1 million to 1. do the test and get back to me.

cheers rossco
1989 BX 16v ph1 Chipped, k+N, full scorpion, weber throttle body, NOS 1990 BX 16v ph2
1996 transit 2.5di 80 swb
2006 Suzuki GSR 600cc Fast as F**K!

tim leech

Post by tim leech » Sat Nov 11, 2006 4:57 pm

Will do rosco, will let you know, the AA man did take one the plug leads off to check and claimed here was a good strong current when I turned the engine over though.

tim leech

Post by tim leech » Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:38 pm

Heres a thought a mate of mine said maybe the timings slipped hence why it wont start even when theres fule poured straight into the air intake?

It did bounce quite hard when it span its wheels which could make it jump?????

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Post by adamskibx » Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:50 pm

Umm. Maybe the bouncing is the cause. I think I know what you mean by "the bouncing", and it can be rather violent, which could have stretched a cable or something. Check the flywheel sensor in case thats moved and interfered with the timing.

tim leech

Post by tim leech » Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:54 pm

Will do, problem is my limied mechanicl knowledge plus its all electronic on these modern cars!

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Post by Barnsley BXer » Sat Nov 11, 2006 7:00 pm

Had similar symptoms on my Hurricane.Turned out to be a knackered crank sensor(exactly the same happened on my dad's ZX)
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tim leech

Post by tim leech » Sat Nov 11, 2006 7:02 pm

Okidokes maybe need a fault code reader or summat similar to plug it into to see if that will tell me.

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Post by jeremy » Sat Nov 11, 2006 7:09 pm

Crank sensor is like an ABS sensor - and can be checked for continuity with a multimeter (resistance setting) Like ABS sensors it is susceptible to broken leads through flexing and poor connections.

As this is an early Xantia the info on reading BX codes on the BX DIY site may be relevant.