It just needs one small piece....the engine...

Kingswell · Post by **Kingswell** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:17 am

Unfortunate news today. When I went to look at the exhaust the other day to determine the source of an annoying rattling, I made a grim discovery. It seems that being able to see the car from underneath revealed that my engine block is rusting away and so is my radiator and exhaust. I noticed the hidden corrosion whilst feeling around underneath and realized that it was on the side of the engine block. The radiator is also wasting away and the exhaust isn't much better. So me and my dad decided to get on the phone and start sourcing a new engine, radiator and exhaust.

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:12 am

Exhausts always rot away, often from the inside and really can be regarded as routine replacement parts - and generally are easily obtained - often as pattern parts. A stainlkess steel exhaust may be available - but make sure you know the price before ordering as they can be expensive.

The radiator doesn't really last for ever either and often clogs as it gets old. However if its doing its job and the car isn't overheating - you could just let it go on until it causes problems or starts to leak. At the moment they seem readily available - how long this will continue I do not know. There used to be a specialist trade in re-furbishing the old copper tubed ones - where generally a new core could be fitted and tanks repaired. Don't suppose there's anything that can be done for alloy ones.

Corrosion of the engine block isn't really going to be a problem as its so thick that its unlikely to do any damage - and cast iron doesn't corrode as badl as sheet steel. If the sump is heavily corroded it could leak but if it isn't leaking yet - why not clean it off and paint it. Should it leak it may be possible to weld it or get a used replacement at a small cost.

Kingswell · Post by **Kingswell** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:53 am

The radiator is wasting water. After some time it would usually need refilling (about a month).
The other reason why we want to change the engine is that it is burning a lot of oil. Stop smoke doesn't seem to help. I'm currently putting in a lot of oil every 2 weeks since it gets very low.

It seems to me that all these problems can be fixed with a new engine.
We know of an engine thats arriving in the country in 10 days. Its a 6 year old peugeot 306 engine for about 347 GBP.

cavmad · Post by **cavmad** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:54 am

Hi Kingswell, I`d go with Jeremy`s suggestions here. I certainly wouldn`t let a rusty exhaust, rad or engine block worry me. As Jeremy said exhausts and radiators are common `wear and tear` items and should be pretty easy to source and replace.
The engine block doesn`t sound like anything to be concerned about, you should try living over here as the rain and salted roads make stuff detioriate very rapidly!
Perhaps if you clean and paint the engine and give a wipe over with an oily or LHM soaked rad from time to time it would help? Obviosuly you`ll need to steer clear of rubber belts, brakes and anything else that won`t take too kindly to being oiled but it should be relatively simple to do and your car will look a million times better!

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:08 pm

I think 600 miles pint (800 km per 1/2 litre) would be considered entirely acceptable for a new engine - so a bit more than that will be OK.

Oil can be burnt because it passes the pistons due to ring and/or bore wear - in which case it is often accompanied by crankcase compression as the combustion gasses pass the pistons. If the crankcase is pressurising you will often find it is fumy under the bonnet, if you remove the filler cap you have to move away before you choke - and - which seems relevant to you - the thing leaks oil from everywhere - and I mean everywhere - like the rocker cover and any other cover on it. As your engine is rusty - this isn't happening.

The other place oil gets in is down the valve stems - due to seal wear and age hardening. It may be possible to replace the seals on your engine with the head in place - I seem to remember a discussion on this or the Frenchcar forum recently.

timbo · Post by **timbo** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 5:09 pm

I still have a BX14 that is in need of a good home and somebody who can do some mechanical work themselves. All I'm looking for is to get back the cost of a new battery, front tyres, exhaust and steering coupling. It has about 6 months tax left....

Kingswell · Post by **Kingswell** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:51 pm

Thanks for the replies, sorry I haven't been replying, I've been a bit busy.

I recently found someone that has been working with citroens for years. Hes not an actual mechanic he simply collects and restores, but he knows them through and through especially the BX. When I visited his garage last week he showed me around. He has a beautiful citroen DS that looks like it could have just rolled out of the showroom, he even started it up! What an amazing car. He also had a GS pallas which is really what interested me. Its got factory silver paint but its not done yet. Sitting in it was like no other car I've ever been in before. The seats are so soft and low to the ground. It feels like you become part of the car. He's got a few other wrecks, maybe one day I'll buy the other GS he's got which is a GS-A in need of a lot work.

Anyway back to my BX, he inspected the rust and told me that the rust was quite bad on the engine and that replacing the valve seats could possibly do more harm than good if I remeber exactly what he said, I was busy inspecting another DS' massive cantilever suspension.

tim leech · Post by **tim leech** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:46 pm

Remember its the same engine as a 1.4 peugeot of simailr years so finding a replacement wont be too hard!

Kingswell · Post by **Kingswell** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:51 pm

As previously mentioned I have found a replacement from a 6 year old peugeot 306 for around 350 Gbp.

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:22 am

You could buy the whole car here for that!

Barnsley BXer · Post by **Barnsley BXer** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:00 am

Have you tried this chap.He posted on here ages ago and is based in Malta
http://www.bxclub.co.uk/forum/viewtopic ... ght=#28542

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:52 am

1.4's have a black painted steel rocker cover don't they? Are you sure it isn't just the thin sheet steel cover on the top of the engine which has corroded? I still find the idea of serious external corrosion of cast engine components unlikely - although I suppose the alloy cylinder head could have suffered - but if alloy corrodes its produces loads of white powdery deposits - not good old brown rust.

So working from the top of the engine you have:

Steel cover - originally painted black - can rust.
Alloy cylinder head - will produce white powdery deposits if it corrodes.

Cast iron cylinder block - usually painted black - will rust - but very thick ,metal and doesn't usually corrode deeper than the surface.

Steel sump - can corrode but origianally painted black and usually covered in oil.

And to the near side - gearbox - alloy - can corrode - alloy - so white deposits. Again - corrosion is not usually a problem.

Kingswell · Post by **Kingswell** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:42 pm

The rust is the normal brown rust and its on the front of the engine deep within the bay. You can really see it properly when its up on the lift. The black rocker cover is fine as is the gearbox.

I am now wondering if its worth replacing the radiator and exhaust since these are bad enough to need replacement and leaving the engine for now. To save some money I will buy new valve seats and give it a go at fitting them myself rather than having the mechanic do it since it will cost quite a bit.

I'm hoping that that will sort out the smoke problem since there are no other visible oil leaks anywhere.

Way2go · Post by **Way2go** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:01 pm

Kingswell wrote:The rust is the normal brown rust and its on the front of the engine deep within the bay. You can really see it properly when its up on the lift. The black rocker cover is fine as is the gearbox.

Sounds only aesthetic and no reason for any concern. Cast iron will never usually rust inwards from the surface. If the sight of it disturbs you then you can brush off the surface rust and repaint with cylinder block paint in the limited colour of your choice & that should last for a long time. However the worst part of the job is probably manoevrability of the paintbrush within the bay and you may need to remove some items in order to gain sufficent access.

Kingswell · Post by **Kingswell** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:07 pm

Actually regarding what I previously posted. I think that there is another small oil leak. Its on the gasket that seals the black rocker cover. I checked the oil again and it doesn't look like it has changed much since I put the kleen flo in. Considering how much smoke its been putting out there is still quite a bit of oil.

Could the smoke be an exhaust problem. The back section of the exhaust is filled with a very oily soot.

[img]http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p308 ... titled.jpg

This picture points out the rough position of where the rust is. Its at the bottom of the engine where the arrow is pointing beneath the exhaust manifold.[/img]