BE1 clutch question

Kitch · Post by **Kitch** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 6:49 pm

As some of you may know, the clutch on the estate (19RD) with BE1 gearbox is in poor condition.

What I'm trying to work out is what has actually gone with it. Its an auto adjusting cable, and the biting point is pretty much in the carpet. You have to press it into the floor really hard to change gear and turn it off to put it in reverse. Has been like it for some time, gradually getting worse.

It doesn't slip in the slightest though, its still really "grippy."

I'm considering using the car to drive to Devon and cover around 300-400miles in a couple of weeks....what I want to know is are these symptoms showing a worn clutch? A bent lever? A knackered pedal box etc?

If the car breaks during the trip it will totally ruin the weekend. As I've said before its never broken down before, its like a rock! Amazing in fact, always does whats asked of it. I'm just worried I'm asking a bit much to take it to Devon.

Ideas?

AlanS · Post by **AlanS** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:46 pm

Kitch,

Take a look here:

http://www.citroenz.com/BX/Tips.html

scroll down until you see this:

and that is one clue.

I'd suggest that a way to prove/disprove this theory is if you have a threaded end on the clutch cable, you just remove it and pack it with washers, nuts or anything that will act as a spacer. That then should cause the bite to occur at a higher pedal height. It's only then a case of determining if it's the pedal or the cable on the way out, but I'd bet odds on the pedal.

Alan S

ken newbold · Post by **ken newbold** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 8:34 pm

From past experiance with these, it's usually the release bearing that seizing up and burning it's way through the "fingers" of the clutch plate.

You could try practising changing gear without clutch just in case it gives up, at least that way you'll get home.

Kitch · Post by **Kitch** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 8:44 pm

Interesting tips, I'll try adjusting it.

Ken: You may have a point, the release bearing sounds like a tamberine.

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 9:28 pm

The wear on clutch plates is such that the presser plate moves closer to the flywheel - which means that the fingers go the opposite way - and if this is restricted by the release bearing the clutch will not engage fully.

This is a long winded way of saying that plate wear will DECREASE the free play and the biting point will rise away from the floor.

If its going the other way (I know they do) its probably not plate wear but finger wear and release bearing or other parts of the release mechanism.
How long it'll last is anybody's guess - I decided that the one on my TD Estate was a bit noisy when I got it and that was 7 years ago!

RichardW · Post by **RichardW** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:36 pm

My Sister's 87 19 RD with BE1 went like that, and then shortly after the release bearing went right through the pressure plate....

I'd whip the release arm off and check it's not cracking - and if it's not, then it's box off time. I seem to remember that adjusting the clutch is interesting - you have to slide an extension in behind the presure reg or something....!

mnde · Post by **mnde** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:47 pm

Yes, I had this happen on mine. Biting point near carpet, 1st/reverse difficult or impossible to engage. There was a bit of judder though, which is different to what you've described. Anyway, luckily I was able to adjust the mechanism using the two nuts described (the left-most one sitting half behind the bloody pressure reg!!). Not too difficult once I'd got the knack though. Got the clutch pedal sitting the required height above the brake pedal, so the biting point was back where it should be. From memory you need to unscrew the bolts so there is less thread poking out towards the pressure reg. And yeah, make sure they're screwed up nice and tight against each other afterwards.

Since then the clutch, release bearing, the plastic bit that acts on the release bearing, and the cable have been changed. Light and smooth as anything. Thank god!!

Good luck Kitch!

Mark.

Kitch · Post by **Kitch** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:39 pm

mnde wrote:Yes, I had this happen on mine. Biting point near carpet, 1st/reverse difficult or impossible to engage. There was a bit of judder though, which is different to what you've described. Anyway, luckily I was able to adjust the mechanism using the two nuts described (the left-most one sitting half behind the bloody pressure reg!!). Not too difficult once I'd got the knack though. Got the clutch pedal sitting the required height above the brake pedal, so the biting point was back where it should be. From memory you need to unscrew the bolts so there is less thread poking out towards the pressure reg. And yeah, make sure they're screwed up nice and tight against each other afterwards.

Since then the clutch, release bearing, the plastic bit that acts on the release bearing, and the cable have been changed. Light and smooth as anything. Thank god!!

Good luck Kitch!

Mark.

Actually thats one bit I missed out....there is a fair bit of judder too.

So its a pain to get to the adjusting bit then?

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 4:24 pm

Its easy enough on a TD or a ZX 1.9D - under the air cleaner or trunling in the case of the TD.

Incidentally I think you need to tighten the cable to bring the engagement point up a bit - after all it would work nicely if the floor wasn't there - which means that the cable is too long.

mnde · Post by **mnde** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 4:57 pm

Kitch, whereabouts in Hants are you?? Just had the mad idea of coming out to have a look for you one evening as I've done this job before. I even had to buy a new spanner to do it, cos my set didn't have the one I needed in it! Clue, the two nuts are of different sizes

Only thing is I don't have a clue if yours has the same gearbox as my BX16...

Cheers,

Mark

tim leech · Post by **tim leech** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:08 pm

My 19TZD with 167k mile son it had the same problem, Ken was all set to put a new clutch in it for me but he adjusted it up and it was fine

Kitch · Post by **Kitch** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:15 pm

mnde wrote:Kitch, whereabouts in Hants are you?? Just had the mad idea of coming out to have a look for you one evening as I've done this job before. I even had to buy a new spanner to do it, cos my set didn't have the one I needed in it! Clue, the two nuts are of different sizes

Only thing is I don't have a clue if yours has the same gearbox as my BX16...

Cheers,

Mark

In Eastleigh mate, just below Winchester.

Its the BE1 box, reverse is left and up, next to first. The clutch arm is further round the front of the g/box.

AlanS · Post by **AlanS** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:02 pm

We did of course have a similar set of circumstances (including the judder) on a TZi with a BE3 box that turned out to be a totally clagged lower engine mount. This allowed the engine to reposition which altered the setting on the cable and made it feel like all things nasty, but all came good when the mount was changed.
It's since done the clutch due to the "celebrations" done by the driver when he discovered it wasn't the clutch and the damage he did driving it with it like this.

Might not be even close to the problem here, but worth a look before you begin demolition proceedings.

Alan S

DLM · Post by **DLM** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:30 pm

Your symptoms sound like what happened on a BE1-boxed petrol BX 16 I used to own.

Lower and lower biting point, noisier and noisier from the release bearing, until I was left with about 1/2 an inch of travel, though thankfully that was on the way to get the box out and get it fixed (which I was putting into someone else's hands).

I just about made it before all clutch pedal travel disappeared.