Gear Linkages/Gearbox Problems

Ian_Fearn · Post by **Ian_Fearn** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:27 pm

My TZD has always had a rather notchy gear change. I've driven tons of BX's including TZD's and this is by far the worst ever.

I put this down to the low mileage and thought it might free up but its got worse and is rapidly getting worse.

Symptoms are as follows:

Difficulty selecting first and reverse gear at all times

Occasional crunching into 3rd, 4th and 5th going up the box

Very notchy change going up the box

Difficulty leading to choosing another gear coming down the box, partiuclarly 2nd gear

Difficult to do quick changes

Sometimes i'll pull off in 2cv because it just wont go into 1st although this has only started to happen in the last 5 or so days.

The clutch doesnt slip although its well adjusted towards the end of its thread on the cable (Its been a London car all its life)

The notchyness is still very apparent with the engine turned off trying to move through the box.

Any thoughts?

tim leech · Post by **tim leech** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:28 pm

Push the clutch down?

Kitch · Post by **Kitch** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:30 pm

If the biting point is right, without teaching you to suck eggs have you checked the gearbox oil

Ian_Fearn · Post by **Ian_Fearn** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:23 pm

I've checked nothing.... Have you seen the weather???

Gearbox oil was my first thought. I'm going to change it over christmas. In fact i've got mine to do and the missus GTi.

ken newbold · Post by **ken newbold** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:24 pm

Gearbox oil

remove gear change links and grease

clutch

Ian_Fearn · Post by **Ian_Fearn** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:31 pm

ken newbold wrote:Gearbox oil remove gear change links and grease clutch

Ken, i take it by your tears that this is a pig of a job??

Kitch · Post by **Kitch** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:20 pm

When I pulled the engine out of the valver, the clutch was easy.

It was a total pig in situ though, Some people will come on here and say "oh I can do one of those in 13mins with one hand dipped in a bucket of piss, one leg behind my ear and a german shepard chewing at my nose. In the rain, at 2am, with no lights I'm the only thing supporting the car." You get them on every forum

But, it is an arsehole of a job. Unlikely its the clutch though I wouldn't have thought.

Once you've changed the oil, check all the gearbox to engine mounting bolts are all there and tight. Sounds mad, but mine came loose and I had the same symptoms.

tom · Post by **tom** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:26 pm

Twelve minutes if you swap the German Shepherd for a decent retriever of course. Otherwise allow a weekend.

Ian_Fearn · Post by **Ian_Fearn** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:24 pm

Thanks for the advice but i certainly dont intend to spend my xmas hols in the cold changing the clutch.

The car needs quite a few other bits and pieces so if the right winter hack comes along i'll bung the TZD in the garage until it gets warmer.

roscoe · Post by **roscoe** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:35 pm

Sounds like gearbox oil to me - my TZD acts the same when the oil gets low - had a slow leak around the NS driveshaft seal until I finally replaced it. Also strongly suggest you try and get some Nulon G70 gearbox additive in there along with fresh oil - makes a world of difference to the way they shift. The gearbox in my TZD is notchy into 2nd - always has been since I bought it in '94, but I just double clutch or shift slower from 1st to 2nd or 3rd to 2nd - all the other gears are fine. However, it is a lot different gearbox from the 16V one I had - that one I could shift as fast as I wanted with no problems - not so the diesel. Don't know if it is due to the different gear ratios, syncros being worn more or what - but it definitely doesn't like 'speed shifting' - never did.

AlanS · Post by **AlanS** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:24 pm

Further to Rosscoes comments above;

I've found over the years and many gearbox services that if the gear oil in there gets around a high end figure of 95 you will always get notchiness. The worst offenders are garages who decide in their wisdom to "upgrade" your oil based on some oil company propaganda they don't fully understand and give you a 75/95 full synthetic gear oil conversion, often without making an issue of the fact they've done it; they usually tell you when you go back it couldn't be that because this is the latest state of the art stuff. Maybe, but the gearbox isn't and therein lies the problem.
I've had a couple of guys who have reckoned it has worked for them, but I've yet to see it. There was also a school of thought many years ago that ATF in manual gearboxes was also the way to go; a theory I suspect that was thought up on a boozey Friday night with the boys at the pub.
From Gabors BX DIY site (dead link to gearbox oil unfortunately)

If you have the service records and they show that the transmission oil is not yet near the end of its expected lifetime, you can leave it alone. If you have to change it, buy mineral oil. Synthetics are perfect for the engine but are a bit too thin for the gearbox of the BX, resulting in less smooth a gearchange

I have also found 125 mls of Nulon G70 works wonders. An ex President of the Cit car club of NSW, gave the gearbox in his D this treatment without telling his wife, (who was away at the time) and he couldn't convince her the gearbox hadn't been overhauled it made such a difference.
Best approach is to do one change, then do around 3 - 5000 klms and change it again with the same mix. I always use a straight 80 grade gear oil with it.
This will make a great improvement when driving as regards changes and noise, but as for 1st and reverse, I think you may need to be looking at a clutch adjustment.

Alan S

MULLEY · Post by **MULLEY** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:18 am

My Tzd was a bit notchy & sometimes wouldnt change down, always 1st gear was an issue, but since the gearbox oil change (cant remember what i used but its the specification according to Citroen, nothing fancy), its miles better, a lot smoother.

So as everyone else has said, change the oil 1st & then if no change then back to the other ideas.

Jayboy · Post by **Jayboy** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:27 am

It's BX thing mate. When mum had her TGD many years ago she was always complaining about the bloody awful gearbox in it. My dad hated it even more so we had the dealer look at it several times over the first few services in the period of a couple of years.

Guess what. Every time it came back with them saying they couldn't find anything wrong. Gave up in the end and it was no better by the time we got rid of it 9 years and 70k later.

I've been lucky in that all my BX gearboxes have been fairly slick

I know that's no use to you but just saying that seems to be the way some of them are!

tim leech · Post by **tim leech** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:56 am

I take it the 16v gearbox is obviously different, mines a real darling in my car and is finger light and quite precise, even though its done 139000 miles. Shame the rest of the cars not as nice!

AlanS · Post by **AlanS** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:08 pm

Jayboy wrote:It's BX thing mate. When mum had her TGD many years ago she was always complaining about the bloody awful gearbox in it. My dad hated it even more so we had the dealer look at it several times over the first few services in the period of a couple of years.

Guess what. Every time it came back with them saying they couldn't find anything wrong. Gave up in the end and it was no better by the time we got rid of it 9 years and 70k later.

I've been lucky in that all my BX gearboxes have been fairly slick

I know that's no use to you but just saying that seems to be the way some of them are!

Take it for what it's worth, but we've had 3 BXs with notchy changes and all 3 have been fixed by doing what I suggested above.
Got to be more than coincidence.

Alan S