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tom
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Post by tom » Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:57 am

Amen, Chris.
Vive les UX.

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Kitch
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Post by Kitch » Mon Jan 01, 2007 5:38 pm

I can fully see where you're coming from Chris, and believe me I prefer this approach as it means less work for me.....which is always good.

However, if I change the pump and belt etc.....and to be fair the rad as it really has seen better days, I'll cure my leak but I doubt I'll cure my bubbling expansion tank....the one that pressurises when the car is just idling as the fan cuts in.

Those are the only two issues. The leak I can fix, the pressurising I'm not sure as I don't actually know whats causing it!

I was thinking maybe do a compression test on it during the week? I've been meaning to buy a DIY one for some time.

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docchevron
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Post by docchevron » Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:17 pm

A compression test wont necessarily show up a blowing head gasket.
If there is bubbling in the expansion tank that does indicate gasket failure, the easiest way to check is to get an exhaust emissions analyser and sniff the expansion tank.
Fair point though, if you've got the engine in bits anyway then maybe doing the HG aint such a bad idea, I'd probably do the same! although being me I'd probably pull the engine out and re-build the whole lump, but I go overboard!!! :D

Having thought about it, it could be if it's only bubbling / pressurising when it's getting really hot (ie, fans coming in, so near the limit of design temp) then it could well be that the HG is starting to go.....

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jeremy
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Post by jeremy » Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:18 pm

There's only one place presure can come from!

Can you get your money back on the thing? Even a private seller must sell sound stuff - and a leaky head gasket isn't sound.

Trouble is you'll cure this and then the dreaded K problems will keep on coming.

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Kitch
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Post by Kitch » Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:08 pm

Well this kinda brings us bang up to date with current affairs.

The tank spews water, but only when it gets so hot the rad fan is about to cut in. It doesn't do it cold, or warm.
The car certainly hasn't overheated yet, not while I've owned it anyway. I'm told most K series are due a HG change around this milage anyway.

I could go back and complain at the bombsite car-lot and try and get my money back, but in honesty I do like the car and I didn't pay alot for it....for the amount I did actually spend am I going to find a decent car anyway?

The original gaskets are weak, you can now buy Land Rover replacements with a double layered and apparently will outlast the bodywork on the car aslong as the cooling system is properly maintained, which it would be.

Cambelt and water pump need doing anyway...if its not too bad a job I'll knock them all off at once, but the question is do I really need to? The symptoms are in their very very early stages if it is HGF thats for sure. But to wait and find out that it is, then have it overheat etc.....not such a good idea. So I'm stumped! :lol:

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Post by jeremy » Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:44 pm

Kitch

From the look of it K series can be made to work properly - but as you will have seen from the article on the Austin Rover site there have been many modifications over the years which means that considerable care will have to be taken to get the right bits all together, liner projection, replacement of plastic dowels with steel, correct spec bolts etc. correct thermostat location . . .

Some of this sounds and probably is similar to a 16 valve but the difference seems to be that the 16 valve was virtually unmodified mechanically during production whereas it looks like no 2 K's were the same.

The through bolts would concern me, as I would consider the bottom crankshaft bearing carrier at risk of parting with the block and the consequent risk of dirt getting in that joint - so I would certainly take the engine out and overhaul it on the bench - so that I could separate and re-make this joint - and replace the shells at the same time.

Has yours got the variable valve timing? Haven't a clue how this works!

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Kitch
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Post by Kitch » Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:18 pm

No this doesn't have VVT. I do know how that works and its a shame I don't have it :lol: The VVi engines are more reliable anyway I've been informed.

As far as the actual job goes, I've asked advice on the so far fairly useless and short MG rover forum (i've already got on the wrong side of them by calling the K series cooling system inadiquate and crap). The Austin Rover one is much better, but doesn't seem to have a tech section as such.
If I find out I have to piss around with the bottom end just to remove the head I'll not be chuffed. I don't want to take the engine out to be honest, as its a chore of a job and the access to all the components with it in situ is actually very good and makes a welcome change from a grazed knuckles BX!

There are various mods to carry out, the important ones seem to be to use the LR gasket, and oil rail. And to make sure the entire cooling system is free from blockages....which seems logical! Funny thing is, that "compact and futuristic" cooling system aside, the engine is actually a cracker. Its economical, it goes very well for a little engine and is smooth and refined.

The rest of this car is very tidy and it really is a joy to drive. I like it much more than I thought it would, its even a bit of a looker (if I ever feel like being a car tart :lol: )

The main question is....wheres it best to start the fire? Passenger footwell or from under the engine bay? :lol:

But in seriousness I'm actually more inclined to try and get this car sorted, as every other cheapy second car I buy always turns out to be a runt....it must be me! So I'm thinking I've got a fairly good base here, so I might try and make something of it.

tom
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Post by tom » Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:23 pm

The car could be boiling because the leak from the water pump is sufficient to prevent the cooling system from pressurising so the water boils at 100c and not at the higher temperature it would attain if the system were sealed. Fix the fault you have and don't go looking for trouble just yet.
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Post by jeremy » Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:35 pm

Here's a better link to the article I had in mind -

There's more on the K series on that site - admittedly as used in the Elise - as well as an explanation of the valve timing.

http://www.sandsmuseum.com/cars/elise/t ... kingk.html

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Kitch
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Post by Kitch » Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:00 pm

tom wrote:The car could be boiling because the leak from the water pump is sufficient to prevent the cooling system from pressurising so the water boils at 100c and not at the higher temperature it would attain if the system were sealed. Fix the fault you have and don't go looking for trouble just yet.
Very handy tip Tom, thanks. My only issue with this is that if the system is knackered.....I'd have to pull it all to pieces again to fix it. And I do rely on this car everyday.
Not only that, if the HG is in fact ok, I'd have no idea as to when it would actually go.
Sure I can make sure the cooling system is tip top, but what about the 10years worth of previous owners effects on it. I could be worrying about nothing I know.

I guess the real answer is fix the water pump and get it running. Then crack on with the 16v and get it roadworthy. Then if the Rover fails, the BX can be used instead :lol:

Hmmmm, thats a thought!

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docchevron
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Post by docchevron » Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:40 am

Aye, sounds like the best thing to do here is indeed fix the pump and drive it! If you're really worried about the HG, stick a can of K-seal in the cooling system, if there are no leaks it'll trundle around the cooling system without causing problems, when a leak appears it'll stop it.
It struggles in diesels but works well in petrols, I've got two cans of it in the valver untill I can find time to replace the cracked head, she's done 11,000 miles since the head went on K-seal with no problems at all!

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Chris G
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cavmad
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Post by cavmad » Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:29 am

I used K seal recently which sort of worked! It certainly sealed the system as it never leaked water again but it did still smoke it`s t*its off. Another thing I recall from the K series engines was that IF the headgasket goes then after a while the blocks become rusty and this causes even more problems.
It had happened on one that I had been given: apparantly the previous owner ran it for ages with a faulty/duff h/g and kept topping the water up (though perhaps not as often as he should have). A garage repaired it and craftily noted in small letters on the receipt `work not warranteed due to corosion of block from previous leaking head gasket`. Guess what? Nearly £600 lighter and less than 2 months later it went again and I`ve heard of quite a few examples of this.
I mention this Kitch just in case the h/g is starting to show signs of leaking or needing replacement, if it`s not then all well and good hopefully.
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Kitch
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Post by Kitch » Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:35 pm

cavmad wrote:I used K seal recently which sort of worked! It certainly sealed the system as it never leaked water again but it did still smoke it`s t*its off. Another thing I recall from the K series engines was that IF the headgasket goes then after a while the blocks become rusty and this causes even more problems.
It had happened on one that I had been given: apparantly the previous owner ran it for ages with a faulty/duff h/g and kept topping the water up (though perhaps not as often as he should have). A garage repaired it and craftily noted in small letters on the receipt `work not warranteed due to corosion of block from previous leaking head gasket`. Guess what? Nearly £600 lighter and less than 2 months later it went again and I`ve heard of quite a few examples of this.
I mention this Kitch just in case the h/g is starting to show signs of leaking or needing replacement, if it`s not then all well and good hopefully.
Definately worth knowing mate, although the blocks on K series are alloy :?:

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Post by Stewart (oily!) » Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:19 pm

Alloy ones can corrode/scale up, especially if there is a continuous supply of fresh oxygen rich water coming in. if the gaskets gone its likeley to be on a tap water diet, without corrosion protection.
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Kitch
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Post by Kitch » Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:41 pm

Thats what I was thinking, but was also concerned about the liners.

I've now been told the job is easy to do and all I need to do is make sure the pistons are in the safe position when I bolt it all back together.