Wafer thin mint..clutch

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BX Bandit
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Wafer thin mint..clutch

Post by BX Bandit » Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:33 am

As I have mentioned, it would seem my clutch is on its way on on the TD..basically, on local journeys the clutch actually seems fine...just awkward to get into gear..esp 1st. But, when warmed up and on the motorway, if I'm too keen with the throttle it slips.

As I'm off to Southampton on the scrounge this weekend, I'm just wondering if any adjustment will give me in bit of longevity to ensure the trip goes ok or will this just put strain on the realease bearing & fingers and truly b&gger things up?

How do I know if it's the clutch wafer thin or if it just needs adjusting?
have some balls
1990 BX 16V Platinum Grey
1990 BX TZD (with A/C) Pink
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2003 Audi A6 2.5 TDi
1960 Morris Minor Clarondon Grey
1971 Triumph 2000 Auto Valencia Blue

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Oscar
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Post by Oscar » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:34 am

Get it replaced before you go, would be my advice. I ignored the warning signs for a week, before we were suddenly left stranded coming off a motorway slip road! Luckily facing downhill, so I managed to freewheel down and off the main road and round the corner, to call the cavalry.

Even more luckily we were about 2 miles from the local Cit specialist and got a tow back. You might be in Southampton when it fails.
(Red BX 1.7TZD ("Well, it is a style icon" - Tom Sheppard)) "Was", Tom, "was"

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Post by RichardW » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:39 am

The adjsutment for the BX clutch is pedal height only. You can check this is right - can't remember the figure - 140mm travel maybe. However, you seem to have 2 conflicting troubles - clutch slip, and clutch drag. For the slip you want to lengthen the cable to ensure that there is no weight on the release bearing, but then this will limit the movement of the pressure plate, and potentially make the drag worse, as you might not get enough to let go of the friction plate (to improve the drag you'd want to shorten the cable, which may make the slip worse). It does sound like it's new clutch time...... Worth checking the adjustment though - you might be able to fix the drag without affecting the slip, and as long as you don't rag it it should be OK for a while yet..... maybe!
I NEED a BX TD.

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Post by jeremy » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:45 am

Plate wear is accompanied by a rising biting point - which needs adjustment eventually to prevent clutch slip due to the release mechanism not allowing full engagement.

Diaphragm presser springs (as fitted to the BX) tend to get heavier as the plate wears. In extreme cases you can feel them go 'over centre' as the clutch is operated and after an initial heavy pressure the thing seems to get lighter.

On BX's there seems to be a trend for linkage and diaphragm spring wear. Here the fingers develop grooves, the ball bearing release wears internally and there isn't enough travel to get the thing to disengage properly as the pedal has hit the floor.

Clutch drag (insufficient disengagement) will cause difficult gearchanging as the synchro can't work properly unless the drive to the gearbox is completely disconnected.

Clutch slip is generally caused by plate wear - as the rivets holding the lining on come proud of the driven plate surface or some other bit of metal if there the linings are glued on. Nice manufacturers made the flywheel side slightly thicker so the disposable presser plate scored first, hopefully leaving the flywheel undamaged.

Clutch linings are like brake linings and pads - in that they fade - which means that once they start to slip they get hot very rapidly - and - yes you've guesses - they grip even less.

Its perfectly possible to drive a car without a clutch freeing at all - simply engage first gear, operate the starter and double declutch your gearchanges. Not a good idea in traffic! (its best to warm the engine a bit before starting)

So your clutch is both dragging and slipping - which suggests advanced wear and most of the problems outlined above. My guess is that one or more of the diaphragm fingers has snapped or its end worn through - meaning that the presser moves in a lopsided way, and so one part doesn't free properly. In which case tightening the cable might help but there must still be free movement at the top of the pedal travel.

The slip should be minimized by avoiding all strong acceleration and allowing the engine to run freely - which means basically keeping the revs up at small throttle openings and using 5th gear downhill only - get the idea - . If it starts to fade - take the load off the engine.

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docchevron
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Post by docchevron » Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:20 pm

Yep, new clutch time matey!
Bring a rope or draw bar tomorrow (just in case :wink: )
The clutch in the valver is only 13K miles old so Wont have any trouble hauling your TD!! :lol: :lol:

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Chris G
Smokes lots, because enough's enough already!

Far too many BX's, a bus, an ambulance a few trucks, not enough time and never enough cash...

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Post by Kitch » Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:46 pm

Southampton eh? What you doing in my neck of the woods?!
Well if you break down give me a shout. I have the estate and a towing bar in the boot :lol:

tim leech

Post by tim leech » Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:01 pm

Kitch wrote:Southampton eh? What you doing in my neck of the woods?!
Well if you break down give me a shout. I have the estate and a towing bar in the boot :lol:

Also with knackered clutch!

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Post by Kitch » Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:41 pm

No no, the estates clutch is ok I think. Its the clutch arm thats cained :lol:

It bites hard, doesn't slip at all. Its just hard work getting it into gear!

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Post by Vanny » Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:30 pm

ropes illegal!!! only time you can now use a rope to tow a car is if it poses an immenent danger to other road users (ie a dual carriage way with no hard shoulder!) also rules stipulate within 100yards or nearest safe pull in, thus ropes are now pretty much illegal so you'll need a static tow bar! I personally carry static tow and 10 tonne weight STATIC rope (which is rather hard to come by!!!)

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Post by BX Bandit » Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:34 pm

Hi Kitch,

I'm seeing Bernie for some bits off his Hurricane, then on to Toms to do a swapsy (well, its a freebie from Tom actually but I do have a window reg in exchange) also picking up a handbrake cable I saw on fleabay. If you fancy meeting up then maybe Toms as HQ???

Thanks all for the input everyone, I shortened the cable a touch today...it has made a slight difference to gear change but it does have the 'over-centre' motion Jeremy mentioned so it's probably feeling a bit stressed on full pedal depression. It doesn't slip on short journeys but the adjustment is clearly wrong - pedal is too high.

I'm not sure wether to risk it or take the Xantia without o/s door mirror. Thanks for offer of tows etc..if you needed to tow me back Doc isn't motorway towing illegal? I only have a rope - no bar.
have some balls
1990 BX 16V Platinum Grey
1990 BX TZD (with A/C) Pink
1990 BX TGD White
2003 Audi A6 2.5 TDi
1960 Morris Minor Clarondon Grey
1971 Triumph 2000 Auto Valencia Blue

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Post by docchevron » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:57 am

Lots of things are illegal mate... Doing 65mph in a 30 zone in a 9 tonne bus in very windy / wet conditions on the side of a cliff could be described as illegal and suicidal, but I do it everyday!! :lol: :lol:

I have a bar, but it's far away.....
If push comes to shove mate, I've fitted clutches at the side of the road before now......

Indeed towing on the motorway is illegal, but then towing a BX with a BX doing 137mph would also be illegal for a large number of reasons, doesn't mean it wouldn't be fun!! :shock: :lol: :lol:

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Chris G
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Far too many BX's, a bus, an ambulance a few trucks, not enough time and never enough cash...

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Post by BX Bandit » Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:34 am

:-k :-k For some strange reason your offer of a tow is becoming mysteriously un-tempting...I might spend a better chance of survival pitching canvas in the middle of the M4 :shock:
have some balls
1990 BX 16V Platinum Grey
1990 BX TZD (with A/C) Pink
1990 BX TGD White
2003 Audi A6 2.5 TDi
1960 Morris Minor Clarondon Grey
1971 Triumph 2000 Auto Valencia Blue

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Post by Stewart (oily!) » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:29 pm

My towing bar was £20 from Halfrauds, Bandit it has given you the Gypsys warning, perhaps you could carry a clutch kit like a lucky charm, then maybe it could mysteriously conk out right outside Docs place :)
Stewart
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tim leech

Post by tim leech » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:31 pm

Kitch wrote:No no, the estates clutch is ok I think. Its the clutch arm thats cained :lol:

It bites hard, doesn't slip at all. Its just hard work getting it into gear!

Still a knackered clutch then!

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Post by Kitch » Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:50 pm

tim leech wrote:
Kitch wrote:No no, the estates clutch is ok I think. Its the clutch arm thats cained :lol:

It bites hard, doesn't slip at all. Its just hard work getting it into gear!

Still a knackered clutch then!
Well not really mate. The pedals still quite light and it bites fine. But its almost like there isn't enough leverage in the clutch, like the cable is too loose. But the cable is self adjusting on these, and I'm told that the arm has an adjustment which will be out.