Miles per gallon

BX Tech talk
Stewart (oily!)
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Post by Stewart (oily!) » Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:25 pm

TZD 19 TD one of the few
Xantia Td estate, going soft

Doz
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Post by Doz » Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:41 pm

The very thing ... bid on !
Doz

2007 Citroen C1 (it's not a real Citroen)(With a complete set of wheel trims)
2006 C4 1.6VTR+ (Alloys no wheel trims)
1982 Mini HL (No wheel trims, no wheels)
1993 Kawasaki GPZ500

kiwi
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Post by kiwi » Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:05 am

It had to happen eventually :(

Despite my wife usually being able to fill our cars up with fuel with little hassle from the attendants. I asked her to fill the BX which was running on fumes.

The key got jammed in the fuel filler and she asked for assitance and the bloody attendant filled up the car :evil: Not only is the car not full to the brim but NUMPTY put 91 Octane in the BX19TZS.

Driving to work today going up the mountain road the car is pinking to buggery and way underpowered. 64 litres of 91 Octane and the nearest servo is 20km away or 10c more expensive enroute to work.

I am mad extremely that my baby is restricted to low powered running :evil: :evil:

Stewart (oily!)
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Post by Stewart (oily!) » Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:25 pm

Sounds like time to try one of the magic additives Kiwi.
Stewart
TZD 19 TD one of the few
Xantia Td estate, going soft

kiwi
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Post by kiwi » Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:40 pm

ROFL yea right! Octane Booster and closest place that sells it 120km :?

Once I get the Spare cars Fuel down low I plan to Syphoon across as that car loves 91 Octane 8)

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Philip Chidlow
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Post by Philip Chidlow » Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:55 pm

What is Octane booster made of? Is it glorified lighter fuel? :D :roll:
• COMING SOON... 1992 Citroen BX TZD Turbo Hurricane
• COMING SOON... 1998 Citroen Xantia 2.0 16v auto Exclusive
• Xsara Picasso 1.6 16v
and some Ford tat lol

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Post by kiwi » Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:26 am

You can get Octane Booster in the UK from Halfords. Supposed to improve the Octane rating in your fuel but I have always be sceptical. Cheaper just to put higher octane in at the pump.

A neighbour has come up with a solution and swaped me 20ltrs of Aviation Gas for 20ltrs of Diesel I had 8)

That will raise the octane a bit :lol:

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Post by Doz » Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:22 pm

Avgas didn't do the rings on my 1275GT any good at all, but my god it flew :)

New pump has improved things again... but still not seeing 300 miles to a tank...

Found this last night on an aussie website ... posted here for posterity...
I think the air filter they talk about is the earlier round one, not the flat one as fitted to later cars... Don't think the green "flame trap" is fitted to later cars either, or at least mine's abscent without leave..

and I quote "

I've been through this several times with the Trs and always seem to run foul of those who know what it is in theory and want to argue that some of the things required to sort it will have no effect which is why I don't jump in so quickly anymore. Before this, my Trs was getting 14.5 -16L/100 klms, afterwards, 9.5-10L/100klms around town, 7.2-7.3L/100 klms open road.

First point: Is the concertina hose between the exhaust manifold and the thermostatically controlled flap still in place or has it been discarded? Has the flap been jammed open using a self tapper through the side of the casing?
If either of the above, remove obstruction (screw or whatever) and replace the hose. Check that the thermostatic flap still works by blowing a hair dryer on the sensor tube.

Next: Check jets....The idle jet should be a 45.....mine was a 70
Check location of jets as it is possible for the two centre jets to be interchanged and this often happens accidentally when they are being serviced.

Adjustment: Float level should be from memory 7mm +/- 2mm. The setting on this is critical and is time consuming getting it just right. To test if this is set right, the level needs to be dropped to below its lowest setting (as it's nigh on impossible to get an accurate dimension anyway) and the car taken for a test drive. You'll soon know if it's too low; oh yes, you'll know alright. It will be hard to start, be gutless and do a lot of spluttering. When cool enough, reset the level higher by around 1mm and test again. Repeat until you get it right; this can take up to a couple of hours at times. If set too high, the engine will tend to feel dead towards the upper part of the rev range.
When set correctly, the engine should rev out without stuttering even at max revs and without faltering throughout the entire rev range...hard to put into words, but these engines really do sing when in tune and you'll soon know what I mean when it happens.

Cleaning - air intake and fuel: The air filter on theses is absolute crap. Just a piece of foam that they want to sell you for all kinds of prices. Check on the net as I found somewwhere that sold it by the metre and it's used in Cat earthmoving engines and only a couple of bucks a metre. Make your own and change them at each oil change to save a lot of aggro when the old ones disintegrate and make a major job of getting the bits out of the system.
In the breather system, you'll also see a ball looking thing, green with a couple of breather hoses leading to/from it. It can be dismantled and the honeycomb typr discs inside it can be removed. By now it possibly looks like a big black blob....nothing will be getting through it, as a result it's adding to the crap getting into the airfilter. Strip it and degrease all the bits and reassemble and refit.

Fuel: The tank and lines on these begin to degrade at around 8 years of age according to those in the know overseas, as a result, they tend to pollute the fuel system with a black powdery substance that creates its own set of problems. Prior to doing any of the work suggested above it's a good idea to totally clean out the carby using compressed air to blow out jets and passages and prior to commencing the work, to instal a couple of filters. By filters, I don't mean a $6 special from the local accessories shop as these are normally cactus by the time you get out the driveway, what is needed is a good metal large capacity variety. I have used ones from V8 Commodores and Subaru Foresters which can range in price from around $15 up to around $50 and this is installed prior to entry into the fuel pump. Between the pump and the carby, I also installed a glass one with a replaceable cartridge.

Fuel type: Use the highest octane obtainable as the cost difference soon is reimbursed in improved consumption (usually around 10%) and advance spark accordingly. I'm testing my memory now, but IIRC I ran mine at around 10/11 degrees BTDC.

End Result: My car was doing 7.2L/100 klms on a run without air/con 7.3 with it over identical routes and identical loads so it was a proper test.
When I sold the car, the buyer was "advised" to see a well known 'specialist' with a penchant for "going through" cars just after they'd been purchased. (Think flushing their bank account) :rolleyes: Upon seeing this one (that the buyer opted for in preference to one he was trying to sell at the time) he told them that the car was obviously "bodged" to sell and that the jets were all in the wrong places, the timing was out, the hotbox shouldn't be connected in our temperatures (apparently we get different heat to anywhere else) :crazy: that the float level was way too low and basically everything I'd done he redid "his way." As a result I received a phone call from a very irate buyer wanting to know what I'd done to "bodge" the car because they were now only getting about half the fuel consumption they were when they bought the car (it was around 15L/100klms) and now it was going "right" they needed to know what I'd done to it becvause the "expert" who'd charged them over $1000 to screw it up couldn't find the fault with the fuel consumption. I asked thenm to be the judge of who knew what they were doing and suggested they try someone else to do the rectification, problem is, most of the specialists in those days did exactly what he had done and IMO this is where a lot of bad vibes about the 16Trs came from.
You'll find if you follow this long winded explanation, that the problem lies in there in one or more of what I've outlined. It was all based on principles we employed on cars tuned for competition and if you get it 100% right, you'll find that the car will need to be run with the choke out for the first couple of klms, but will perform faultlessly from that point on. The logic being that a richer engine will deteriorate over the time as its temp rises and this is a case of tuning for maximum performance over 99% of its driving time.

Hope that sorts it out OK for you. Always worked for me and others I've sent it to.:wink2:
Doz

2007 Citroen C1 (it's not a real Citroen)(With a complete set of wheel trims)
2006 C4 1.6VTR+ (Alloys no wheel trims)
1982 Mini HL (No wheel trims, no wheels)
1993 Kawasaki GPZ500

kiwi
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Post by kiwi » Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:08 pm

Bookmarked for future referance :idea:

That dreaded Hose that goes above the Manifold is a pain in the butt! Every BX I have ever owned that pipe has come away.

Best I can remember from memory of its effects was when my parents borrowed my BX16 and went up to Newton Abbott from Plymouth on a cold sunny January day when the temp did not get above -1c.

The car would not start in the car park, RAC came out and the problem was Ice in the carb, built up from condensation formed after the car had parked up. After reconnecting the hose to the bracket on the manifold the starting problems ceased in cold weather.

Only trick is keeping the dmn thing in place without the heat disintegrating it :?

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mnde
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Post by mnde » Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:19 pm

Neither of my Meteors had this hose in place when I bought them.

For the second car I bought a couple of pieces of flexible hot air ducting from Halfords and duck-taped them together to get the required length. It's still holding so far and it's more of a foil material than cardboard......

Where is the sensor for the hot air flap?? I want to test this!

Mark.
1982 Citroen GSA Spécial Estate
1997 Renault Mégane RT 1.4e
1991 Citroen BX16 TGS Meteor - gone to Scotland

Doz
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Post by Doz » Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:28 pm

There is no sensor as such, the flap is hinged on a bi-metal spring which just bends as it gets warm ...
Doz

2007 Citroen C1 (it's not a real Citroen)(With a complete set of wheel trims)
2006 C4 1.6VTR+ (Alloys no wheel trims)
1982 Mini HL (No wheel trims, no wheels)
1993 Kawasaki GPZ500

Doz
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Post by Doz » Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:47 pm

OK folks, I think I've sussed it .....

I went to check the ignition timing AGAIN ... yep, there it is , 10° .... blipped the throttle and it stayed firmly at 10° .... not advancing .... undid the vac can from the carb and sucked on the pipe .... fine , advancing....

Stuck my finger over the pipe sticking out of the carb... no vacuum , not even the slightest ..... so I gingerly poked it with a suitably sized drill bit (the blunt end) and now there's a bit of vacuum, re-attched the pipe, re-set the timing and bob's yer uncle (also adjusted the tick-over a bit as it was now over 1000 RPM) ....a quick road test and at least my flat-spot has gone... There's a touch of pinking on heavy acceleration, so I might back it off a bit tomorrow, I'll see how things settle down...

There must have been something stuck in the pipe ... carbon? I hope this sorts out the fuel economy too...
Doz

2007 Citroen C1 (it's not a real Citroen)(With a complete set of wheel trims)
2006 C4 1.6VTR+ (Alloys no wheel trims)
1982 Mini HL (No wheel trims, no wheels)
1993 Kawasaki GPZ500

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mnde
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Post by mnde » Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:26 am

Oooh, I might check my vacuum as well.

BTW I read in Haynes that you need to set the timing with the vacuum hose disconnected.

Regards,

Mark.
1982 Citroen GSA Spécial Estate
1997 Renault Mégane RT 1.4e
1991 Citroen BX16 TGS Meteor - gone to Scotland

wannab-x
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Post by wannab-x » Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:17 pm

Sleepy, in case you're reading this, I'm getting 350-400 miles on a tank in the TZS - the first tank of petrol I put on took me dead on 400 miles. Think it was probably the type of driving that was causing the low mpg, rather than the car itself.

(Incidentally - thanks for the text, the car seems to be working fine now I've topped up the antifreeze. Just need to get the battery sorted & the towbar on, and I'm all set!)

Doz
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Post by Doz » Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:53 pm

wannab-x wrote:Sleepy, in case you're reading this, I'm getting 350-400 miles on a tank in the TZS - the first tank of petrol I put on took me dead on 400 miles. Think it was probably the type of driving that was causing the low mpg, rather than the car itself.

(Incidentally - thanks for the text, the car seems to be working fine now I've topped up the antifreeze. Just need to get the battery sorted & the towbar on, and I'm all set!)
Is that a 16TZS? (Did they do a 19?!?) I need a ball park to be working towards....
Doz

2007 Citroen C1 (it's not a real Citroen)(With a complete set of wheel trims)
2006 C4 1.6VTR+ (Alloys no wheel trims)
1982 Mini HL (No wheel trims, no wheels)
1993 Kawasaki GPZ500