It seemed like such a minor issue, but...........

BX Tech talk
Post Reply
AlanS
BXpert
Posts: 841
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 9:53 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

It seemed like such a minor issue, but...........

Post by AlanS »

One of the boys has been procrastinating about doing a clutch on his TZi but eventually decided that Easter was as good a time as any to bite the bullet.
We've had the kit since before Christmas, but it just gets soooo bloody hot in Summer these days and we get the occasional legless "visitor" sliding through (nothing more disconcerting than having a red belly black slide past your nose when you're under a car - don't ask how I know) ----^ so the car was stored at a neighbours garage for a few months.
Yesterday we kick it over and bring it home but as it drives into the garage, an avalanche of coolant dumps on the floor. A quick check and we're certain it's a head gasket, so instead of just dropping the box and doing a new clutch, we've decided the entire shooting match might as well come out so we can do a head off and while we're on the job, we'll possibly drop a set of rings in as well as sort the busted heater pipes, and of gourse pop the new clutch in so it all goes back in one piece and is just a case of hook up and go.....we hope. [-o<
Now, the $64,000 question; what is the best way to drop a TZi drive train out? Last one we did was a series one 16V a few years back and it came out via the top but was a $#!+ of a job, but we refitted via the bottom. I've been told the top is the way to go with a Trs but after the episode with the 16V, I'm still not convinced.
Suggestions anyone?


Alan S
By the time you're old enough to know it all, you can't remember why you were learning.
User avatar
docchevron
The Immoderate half of the admin team
Posts: 7524
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 7:03 pm
Location: A Bucket of Fish
x 7
Contact:

Post by docchevron »

Either either Alan, it will go out the top quite easily, you just need to have a load levveller on the crane to pull the engine up first, ie, have the lumo at a good 45deg angle at least so you can swing it sideays so the gearbox clears the battery tray on the way up.

If you've got a single (or double) post car ramp and can get the car high enough to get the lump out the bottom then it's just as easy really.

I've always pulled them out the top as I usually do engine swops on my garden, but there's little in it.

Even my valver lump came out and went back from the top, which again, was very easy with the engine on a tilt as it went in then straightened up as the box cleared the battery tray.

Removing the crank pulley before lifting makes things easier to...

That said, it's easy enough to do a head job with the engine in the car....

Best of luck mate! Specially with all those deadly spiders / snakes etc lurking! Rather you than me!

Cheers
Chris G
Smokes lots, because enough's enough already!

Far too many BX's, a bus, an ambulance a few trucks, not enough time and never enough cash...
AlanS
BXpert
Posts: 841
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 9:53 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Post by AlanS »

I just reckoned if I'm doing clutch, head and now rings and gaskets, it should be about even stevens timewise if all goes well, but this way I have the added advantage of having it all out where I can get to it.


Alan S
By the time you're old enough to know it all, you can't remember why you were learning.
Kitch
Over 2k
Posts: 6417
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:36 pm
Location: Fareham, Hants
My Cars: Too many to list
x 88
Contact:

Post by Kitch »

I always take them out through the top, purely cos I have to do it on my driveway :lol:

I didn't have a load leveller, only a towrope wrapped round the engine :oops: But it lifts at the right angle if you get the knot in a certain place.

As Doc said, remove the crank pulley and also take the engine mounting bolt out of the gearbox....it catches the NSF inner wing otherwise.
One third of a three-spoke BX columnist team for the Citroenian magazine.

CCC BX registrar: The national BX register - click to submit a car!

1983(A) 16TRS (Rouge Valleunga)
1990(H) 16Valve (Rouge Furio)
Mr B
Northern Moderator
Northern Moderator
Posts: 710
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 12:32 pm
Location: On a sofa, up the road from Marty!

Post by Mr B »

Out through the top, you have to tilt the gearbox down and forward to clear the mounting point and the battery tray.
1991 Landrover Discovery
1995 VW Golf SE
AlanS
BXpert
Posts: 841
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 9:53 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Post by AlanS »

Decision made; up she goes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not that big a deal with me as I have a crane and leveller and a 9 foot ceiling in the garage.


Alan S
By the time you're old enough to know it all, you can't remember why you were learning.
Stewart (oily!)
1K Away
Posts: 1604
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 6:23 pm
Location: North Wales

Post by Stewart (oily!) »

What they said, out through the top, 45 degree angle.
Stewart
TZD 19 TD one of the few
Xantia Td estate, going soft
AlanS
BXpert
Posts: 841
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 9:53 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Post by AlanS »

A word to the wise; forget the famous BOL when they give you the 35 things to do to remove the engine if you have air/con and a catalytic converter.
Gearbox mount is located under the battery platform..............so are the 2 air/con hoses all covered in Insulex. The hoses are also saddled in with some hydraulic lines which MrH tells us come out with the engine........Err, not ny more they don't.
A few hoses and sensors associated with the Efi which I suspect is cat related also make a guest appearance, but after about another hours work, she should be out.
It looks like the biggest drama is removing and replacing.........I hope.
I'll keep you posted.


Alan S
By the time you're old enough to know it all, you can't remember why you were learning.
User avatar
m_2975
BXpert
Posts: 503
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:08 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
My Cars: 1989 BX 19TRI Estate
1993 BX GTI
1997 Xantia CT Turbo

Post by m_2975 »

G'Day Alan,

Good luck taking the engine out. We just did our Estate when we did the head and rebuilt the Auto after 300,000kms of sterling service. Out the top is the way that the factory manuals say. Easier said than done with all the extra additionas that the Australian cars have. Thse a/c and efi connections make it a bit of a tricky job. The 45degree angle is dead right and I know that the cam pulley always gets in the way but you may be able to carefully get it out. The manual gearbox is in your favour. You might want to drop the gearbox out the bottom with the car on some stands and then take the engine out the top. That way there won't be any problems with the battery bay.

I'm about to put a new gearbox in my TZI sedan so will be doing a clutch just like you! And it'll be this week!

BTW Do you have a BX towbar spare at all? PM Me if you do. Thanks
My Cars:
'93 BX 19GTi Sedan 5M
'89 BX 19TRI Estate 5M
'89 AX GT(With EFI) 2door 5M
In the Family:
'74 SM IE (Fully Restored) 5M
'90 BX 19TRI122 Sedan 4A
'02 Xantia Exclusive Sedan 4AA
'06 C5 2.2HDi Estate 6A
AlanS
BXpert
Posts: 841
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 9:53 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Post by AlanS »

Well it came out yesterday, so after a couple of bottles of my "Nuclear Lager" (so named for obvious reasons) a glass of Merlot and a couple of Cougar and Cokes in celebration, we put it away before we did something silly. drunk blah
Parts on order from Sydney and Melbourne so hopefully should be here by the weekend.
Managed to break the bloody octopus in the process although given how brittle it was, that was more of a bonus than a problem #-o so I'll start pulling it apart as soon as I make a bit of room and will throw a couple of gaitors on the steering rack, clean it all up under the bonnet and rip all the hydraulics apart and clean and check all of that before the main event.


Alan S
By the time you're old enough to know it all, you can't remember why you were learning.
AlanS
BXpert
Posts: 841
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 9:53 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Post by AlanS »

One little setback today which as yet I haven't spent too much time looking at, but between the bellhousing and the block there are a couple of 8mm Allan headed bolts that hold the box on. One is directly behind the arm that the clutch cable is connected to and there's not enough space between the pivoting point and the head of the bolt to fit a socket to remove it. What's involved in shifting that arm to give access?


Alan S
By the time you're old enough to know it all, you can't remember why you were learning.
mountainmanUK

Post by mountainmanUK »

Could you use the 'short' end of an ordinary Allen key, with an extension of some kind on the longer end for extra leverage? Those bolts shouldn't be all THAT tight! :wink:

Just a thought!
AlanS
BXpert
Posts: 841
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 9:53 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Post by AlanS »

It might work, but the next thing is, will the bolt come out far enough to be able to extract it?
I would think the bolt through the centre of the pivoting arm would be removeable, but it has this plastic knob on top that doesn't seem to want to move. If it comes off and can then be unbolted, problem solved.
The pivot arm appears as though originally the allen end would have gone through the centre, but then it had a piece of steel rod fitted as a factory after thought whjich just bungs up the space for it to fit through.
Stupid part is we ripped a box out of a Trs a couple of years ago without any hassles and I went to see the guy I worked on that with and he can't remember how we did this bit either. ](*,) #-o


Alan S
By the time you're old enough to know it all, you can't remember why you were learning.
User avatar
docchevron
The Immoderate half of the admin team
Posts: 7524
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 7:03 pm
Location: A Bucket of Fish
x 7
Contact:

Post by docchevron »

Er, if its the early style arm, with the short operating rod that acts on the release arm, then yeah, the plastic cover should pop off to reveal a bolt head, undo bolt, the whole thing lifts out.

IIRC the bolt is 19 or 21 mm. It's been a while since I had a old worldy gearbox!!
Smokes lots, because enough's enough already!

Far too many BX's, a bus, an ambulance a few trucks, not enough time and never enough cash...
AlanS
BXpert
Posts: 841
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 9:53 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Post by AlanS »

Does that cap prise off or screw off?


Alan S
By the time you're old enough to know it all, you can't remember why you were learning.
Post Reply