Air conditioning problem

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pindimar
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Air conditioning problem

Post by pindimar » Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:43 am

Air Conditioning problem - Anyone got any ideas?

The air conditioning in my TZi 19 works quite well when the car is running at above idle, but when the car pulls up to lights or a stop sign (for example) the car engine just cuts out altogether.

Any ideas what this could be?

One mechanic I have spoken to says that it's the "step-up motor" which I can't find in the manual and France Cars in Artarmon says that the BX didn't have a step-up motor? So I got back to to the mechanic who clarified by saying that anyone in the trade would know what it is but it may be referred to as an idle motor - he said that power is coming in but none coming out.

Any suggestions would be appreciated

Pindimar (Greg)

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Post by tom » Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:56 am

Your mechanic is a lying scumbag as you are probably aware. there ain't no such animal as a step up motor! I reckon that if the engine idles with the aircon on then this is possibly due to a wiring problem which has to be that the extra load on the electrical system is such that the alternator won't produce enough to maintain the ignition. Check all the earthing points!

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Air Con Prob. replies

Post by pindimar » Fri Oct 14, 2005 11:45 am

Well, thanks for the replies, so far.

I think I'm getting more confused all the time. O.K, O.K., I tell the whole truth!

The first mechanic I took the car to, who actually seems a really good mechanic and normally works on Mercedes and other more up-market cars, said that it was the "step-up motor". That will cost around $400 just for the part. O.K. I said, do it. Two days later: Can't get the part, and the top end of the motor is so stuffed, it's not worth doing anyway. Well, that was quite some months back but then we got into winter and I didn't worry too much about not having the air conditioning until the summer.

The priority at the time was to get a heater back as the heater tap was broken and the heater by-passed. So I got a Citroen specialist (who works on older Citroens, (and located rather inconveniently) to fit a heater tap which I got from The French Connection in Melbourne (second hand) which was great, apart from the fact that the heater never quite turned off after it was fitted. But I didn't worry too much then because it was winter!

Now that the heat is on, so to speak, I rang the Citroen specialist (now "out the back of Bourke", by the way!) and booked the car in to have him fix the heater problem that he was responsible for, and to finally fix the air conditioning. Fair enough, after two days he rings me up and says that he has fixed the air conditioning! I asked him did it cut out at idle. No! it is fine now, he says. That will be $433.80 thank you!

To quote from the invoice " Modify under bonnet air filter & air conditioning wiring "((?????)) ........ " Rectify error codes stored in computer ((??????)) - Adjust heater controls (no charge) ((wow!)) - Top up air conditioning gas - to check if system able to withstand replacement drier & full charge"

There were a couple of other things like new battery terminals and removing the wiring from the brake warning light, but, basically that was what he said he did and charged for. By the way, I mentioned a bearing sort of noise coming from the the drive-train somewhere, but not all the time. Oh well then, he said, if you don't mind I'll drive it home to see if I can hear it. Yes I said, that's fine. (two nights in a row, he said he did this)

The car had an additional 130 kilometres on the clock when I picked it up! Where does this guy live!

But, picking the car up and paying the $433.80! Off I go down the main road and at the firt set of lights, the engine konks out! Try again and again, but, no, konks out every time, at idle.

Back to the drawing board, as they say!

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Post by AlanS » Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:38 pm

The "specialist serviced" BX Estate I just bought wouldn't idle when I collected it either, it was OK when hot but hopeless cold and as I was about to set off in an unknown vehicle, just on dark and in Brisbane peak hour traffic and drive 330 klms I reckoned it might just need looking at before I left, so I adjusted the screw on the throttle body to increase the revs at idle, checked it with the air/con on and I've lived happily ever after.
Some of these clowns out here seem to "specialise" in making mountains out of molehills as this one had done.
Try that & see what happerns. Lift the bonnet and look straight in front of you near the quadrent that operates the throttle cable. Give the big brass looking screw a couple of turns slowly until it evens out and that's it.
..............and what is all this crap about charging systems to see if they'll take a maximum charge? What a pile of old cobblers; that's what you don't do (speaking as a retired refrigeration mechanic) You've been "got at"!


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got at

Post by pindimar » Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:50 pm

...funny how one gets that feeling! Yes, I think I may have been "got at" all right.

It makes that GS Pallas Break you pointed out to someone on the Citroen Clubs forum the other day look better and better! ... and it's still for sale....just joking!

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Re: got at

Post by AlanS » Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:07 pm

pindimar wrote:...funny how one gets that feeling! Yes, I think I may have been "got at" all right.

It makes that GS Pallas Break you pointed out to someone on the Citroen Clubs forum the other day look better and better! ... and it's still for sale....just joking!
Wanna drop a hint as to who the "specialist" might be?

Does their surname start with a "D" a "B" a "C" or an "M"? That's my order of probability. Doubts about "M" as I think all in clubs and things are well wary of him now.


Alan S :wink:
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D B or whatever

Post by pindimar » Fri Oct 14, 2005 11:19 pm

Well......... I better leave that one alone, the legal reasons stand out! I wouldn't want to be more specific on an open forum, perhaps.

...beats me how people could come back more than a couple of times. I did have some doubts after the first time, but what was done, was done well, even though nothing was really itemised on the invoice to quantify what bit cost what. ($1,500)

the second time, however, I couldn't actually see any significant result for spending $433 - apart for the fact that the tank was near full in petrol when it went to him and was just above half full when I picked it up! Plus the inconvenience of getting the car to - - - - - - - and then getting back to Balmain by train, then tram.

Shame the GS isn't air conditioned!!

Pindimar

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Post by AlanS » Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:09 am

Looks like I nailed him in one!

Yeah, he does get a bit touchy about anyone telling what he's really like, but his snitch doesn't come on this board because he'd be like a wart on a pigs arse with his attitude towards rip off repairers doing no wrong.
PM me just to settly my own curiosity. :wink:
BTW, tried that adjustment yet?

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Tried adjustment

Post by pindimar » Sat Oct 15, 2005 3:40 am

.....ah! .....well....yes, just did the adjustment you suggested Alan - a couple of turns of the brass screw anti-clockwise then drove the car with the air-conditioning on....and couldn't get it to stall! All through the tiny lanes in Balmain waiting for other cars to get through in narrow little lanes and away blasts the air-conditioning without the car stalling.

Wish I'd asked this forum about that problem in the very beginning, I would be quite a bit better off financially!

Thank you Alan, thank you Tom, thank you jonkw

I guess I should keep driving it and see what happens in the longer term, but basically, that seems to be it. The guy at the parts place, France Cars at Artarmon suggested just upping the idle a bit, too, yesterday, when I spoke to him. So there you go. Two mechanics with different ideas about what was wrong but all it took was two turns of the idle adjustment.

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Post by Jaba » Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:40 pm

There is a small electrovalve in the throttle housing - its underneath and hard to see. It has two electrical connections and its job is to let more air in at tickover time to increase the idle revs when the a/c compressor is running.

Theses leads are quite often damaged or simply not connected at all cos they have come loose.

Its worth checking them anyway :roll:
The Joy of BX with just one Citroën to my name now. Will I sing Bye Bye to my GTI or will it be Till death us do part.

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electrovalve

Post by pindimar » Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:26 pm

Well, the air cond. seems to be working OK now, although I haven't used it much as the weather has been quite variable since making the adjustment to the throttle on the weekend.

But I shall have a look and see if the wires are connected, as you suggest Jaba.

Thanks

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Post by AlanS » Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:56 pm

I sometimes wonder out here if this sudden inconsistent running might be connected to the crappy fuel we get.
My sons TZi began running like a dog the other week; K light flashing on etc, inconsistent idling, stalling etc. We stopped using it for about a week until someone had time to have a look at it and it was just moved around a bit until he was forced to use it and in the process topped up the fuel. Hasn't missed a beat since, so we have to say fuel. Silly part was that iy wasn't as though it started after a fill up; it was partway down the tank, so anybody's guess what's in the fuel we get here at times.



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crappy fuel

Post by pindimar » Wed Oct 19, 2005 3:32 am

...the fuel or the tanks in which it is stored at the service stations. In regional areas it seems this becomes something of an habitual problem. last January at Tea Gardens / Hawks Nest (near Pindimar) we got contaminated fuel in another car we have, and it really stuffed it up- and the fuel that was drained from the tank looked very oily and dark!

Putting a new fuel filter on fixed the problem for a while and then the engine management computer went down. Apparently tipped over the edge from that contamination, although it apparently wasn't going to last long anyway. (mind you, that's the same mehcanic who told us about the step-up motor for the BX???) Still, that car has run very well ever since being fixed then, in late January.

When it happened lots of people stopped on the road to ask if they could help and so we got to hear all the stories of who had got contaminated fuel and where they thought it came from. Seems as though it's not really at all unusual around there. Not just one service station either, but at least three that seemed to be the source of the problem.

The moral of the story seems to be only get fuel at a larger, higher volume station on a highway.

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Post by jeremy » Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:20 am

You don't need contaminatio to get strange problems from fuel. Many years ago I bought a very good VW Scirrocco GTi and used Esso fuel in it exclusively. After a couple of weeks it was getting rather rough - and I was thinking i was going to have to find out how Bosch K Jetronic worked, until I was some distance from home and could only find Shell - whereupon much to my surprise after a few miles it was running perfectly again. No more Esso - no more problems!

jeremy