gearbox oil, among other things

dumbtime · Post by **dumbtime** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:59 am

Im a complete novis when it comes to cars but I like doing what I can.

One thinng im going to do on the weekend is to change the oil in my gearbox. in my haynes manual it say's to use SAE 75W/80W.

im not completly dumb and suspect that its to do with the viscosity, but what does it mean? I want to know so when I go to buy it and the guy behind the counter says "I hven't got that, how about this?" I know whether to say yes or no.

Im also going to change my accumulator sphere and dont have a removal tool, the DIY section says you can use a chissel and hammer, how does this work?

Many thanks

tim leech · Post by **tim leech** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:07 pm

I would use the recommended viscosity everytime, that grade is readily available from most motor shops.

ken newbold · Post by **ken newbold** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:25 pm

Most motor shops will stock EP80. You could fit EP90 but it is a bit thicker.

You can use a hammer and chisel to remove the spheres but and I mean BUT you must take care. What you are trying to do is tap round the sphere in order to unscrew it. If you were to go in with the chisel at too deep an angle you could rupture the sphere and have like a mini-explosion on your hands or to be more accurate IN YOUR FACE

So do take care.

Post by **mat_fenwick** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:36 pm

Another method that *may* work for the spheres is to tighten a large jubilee clip around them and tap the head of it with a hammer.

Way2go · Post by **Way2go** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:51 pm

A wide web strap wrench (half-inch drive) works well for the suspension spheres front and back. If they are espescially obstinate, tap the spheres with a hammer whilst maintainin torque on the strap wrench.

However, due to the awkward position of the accumulator sphere - the hammer and chisel treatment at a suitable position on the sphere weld gives a quick & easy result without finger and knuckle damage.

DavidRutherford · Post by **DavidRutherford** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:25 pm

ken newbold wrote:Most motor shops will stock EP80. You could fit EP90 but it is a bit thicker.

Personally, I wouldn't be putting an EP oil in a BE gearbox. EP oils have additives that are good for gear teeth, but aren't so good for bearings. I'd stick with the 75W-80W NON-EP gear oil that's specified. Every motor factor in the UK stocks this gear oil. It's often called Total "BV" oil (meaning "Boite de Vitesses," which if I could spell in french correctly, is french for gearbox)

That if you've got the correct specification. Yours is an early 1984 BE1 gearbox, with the filler plug on the "front" of the gearbox and no level plug, rather than the combined filler/level plug on later gearboxes. I believe the correct spec of oil for this box is 15W-40 engine oil. Certainly I know it was for the (identical engine and gearbox) 1984 Talbot Horizon 1.9D I had many years ago. I'd check carefully, because if you put 80-ish grade oil in a gearbox designed for 15W-40, it won't like you very much.

Post by **docchevron** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:29 am

ken newbold wrote:You can use a hammer and chisel to remove the spheres but and I mean BUT you must take care. What you are trying to do is tap round the sphere in order to unscrew it. If you were to go in with the chisel at too deep an angle you could rupture the sphere and have like a mini-explosion on your hands or to be more accurate IN YOUR FACE So do take care.

I've hit seven shades of sh!t out of steadfast spheres with a F big cold chisel and a sledge hammer, never had one blow up on me yet, but yeah, take it careful!

dumbtime · Post by **dumbtime** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:48 pm

Yours is an early 1984 BE1 gearbox, with the filler plug on the "front" of the gearbox and no level plug, rather than the combined filler/level plug on later gearboxes. I believe the correct spec of oil for this box is 15W-40 engine oil.

At them moment im just going on what my haynes manual for my engine says, which is 75w/80w, however I may have missed any exceptions it may have stated, when I get home from work I'll have a better study.

In the mean time if putting 75w/80w is bad, if the correct spec is 15w-40 engin oil, what would happen If i put 15w-40 in if 75w/80w is specified?

Thanks so far for everyone.

P.S. I wonder if my qouting worked? I'll find out soon enough.

DavidRutherford · Post by **DavidRutherford** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:32 pm

Which haynes manual are you using? Is it the Citroen diesel engine supplimentary manual?

Also, check in your glovebox owners manual. That should have the engine oil spec in it.

The haynes I've just checked indicates a changeover in 1988. Pre '88 is 15w-40 engine oil, post '88 is 75W/80W BV oil.

dumbtime · Post by **dumbtime** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:21 pm

Hummmmm.....interesting!?

I have the the citroen diesel engine suplimentary haynes manual 1984 to march 1987 (1.9liter).

It says its BE1 and needs SAE 75W/80W but also suggests Duckhams Hypoid 75W/90S. It also says the capacity is 1.8L.

!!!BUT!!!

My owners manual says to use Total transmission EP 80 W 90, and says the capacity is 1.5L.

I think I'll go for what citroen says. Cant wait to see what the improvement will be. Ive been driving round since i got the car (2yrs) with it not being easy to get into 1st and now its not too good going into 2nd. AP autocare (which is listed on this site and the car's been going there for donkey's years) said I would have to get a new clutch to solve the problem, though i think that may be the case too.

I remember hearing some test you can do to see if your clutch is going, it was somthing like puting it in a high gear and see if you can accelerate up a hill? is this right?

DavidRutherford · Post by **DavidRutherford** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:34 pm

You can only go with the information you have from citroen really. If they specify 80-or-thereabouts grade oil, then that's what should be in there. l do wonder if your citroen handbook is wrong though, as the correct capacity for a BE1 gearbox is 2.0 litres, and no BE gearbox should ever have EP in it, as it will knacker the lightweight bearings in there. Maybe it was only early Peugeot/Talbot boxes that were specified to have 15W-40 in them... Different gear material or maybe a different type of bearing. Who knows.

Clutches have 2 main different modes of failure: Clutch slip can be diagnosed by flooring it in top gear as you bring the clutch up. If the engine revs higher than it should do, and then drops to the correct speed when you back off the accelerator, then the clutch has slip. You may also have a high bite point.

Clutch spin is the opposite, in that it never fully disengages. Usually adjustable out, it's diagnosed by a very low clutch biting point, difficulty in engaging 1st/reverse and generally stiff gearchanges.

How difficult/crunchy is it to engage reverse? This is usually the teller, as there is no Synchromesh on reverse. If you have clutch spin, Reverse will crunch in like a sod.

dumbtime · Post by **dumbtime** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:20 pm

you got me worried now whether to go for the EP or not. I just want someone to tell me what to buy, i find it hard to make dissisions on things I know very little about.

Also, turning the page of my owners manual tells german, italian and spanish people to put 1.8L of EP 80W/85W and french 1.8L Total TM multigrade. shouldnt there be some kind of ISO standard?

clutch spin may be the problem, 1st and Reverse is hard and does crunch if i put it in too quickly though if im slow and let the revs drop it doesnt. Also I remember my brother telling me how had to use the brake to keep the car still when his foot was right down on the clutch.

I have also noticed that it can be hard to pull away smoothly and judders though this happens on certain days usually mild humid ones. (is this clutch slip?)

I did try to adjust the bite point once but i found the haynes manual confusing so i only adjusted it at the lever end with the push rod adjuster and didnt check the pedal pin clearance bit?

What can i do to fix this though I think I may have a combination of both clutch slip and spin.

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:22 pm

Both my Haynes Diesel manual and BX manual list the gearbox oil as SAE (Society of Automobile Engineers or something) 75W/80. The BX manual also correctly states that the BX 14 with the suitcase engine shares the engine oil - so it would seem to cover all ages.

What is curious is that the appropriate Duckhams product (no doubt a paid -for mention) is Hypoid PT 75W/80). I thought hypoid oils were extreme pressure oil (EP) but could be wrong - I know they were developed to cope with the sliding encountered with hypoid gears (which are a crown wheel and pinion gear with the input below the centre line of the crown wheel not on it. These are the traditional type of drive for rear wheel drive cars and hypoids were introduced after the second world war. they were stronger than spiral bevels and allowed the propshaft to be lowered and with it the floor.)

DavidRutherford · Post by **DavidRutherford** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:26 pm

dumbtime wrote:I just want someone to tell me what to buy

2 litres of Total BV 75W / 80W, and a new clutch.

In fitting a new clutch, it's essential to drain the gear oil anyway, so if you're considering having a new clutch, get them to change the gear oil at the same time. Problem solved.

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:38 pm

A couple of points occur to me -

As this is a really early gearbox I think there is a risk of the diff sun wheels dropping if both driveshafts are removed. Haynes deals with this - but basically I think the recommendation is to stuff a piece of wood the same size as the driveshaft in the hole when the first shaft is removed.

BEWARE - make sure you use a drain plug - and don't take out anything else - as there is a bolt which secures reverse which can drop off if it is removed. Best to use the plug under the diff if its got one.