Fancy brake pads & discs

[MULLEY]

Anyone tried using EBC Greenstuff pads or similar & are they actually any better? What about these grooved discs some of which even have holes in em, again anyone got any experience of these?

The above is if you have had them fitted to the BX, i'm not bothered about your other car experiences (if thats ok with you?)....

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/EBC-Front-Greenst ... dZViewItem

[tim leech]

With 72 bhp on tap I wouldnt worry too much mate , BX brakes are pretty damn good anyway, just get some decent quality pads, I bought lucas ones for £15 a set for my 16v.

[jeremy]

If the brakes on your BX aren't about the best of any vehicle you have ever driven then you have a fault that greenstuff pads and grooved discs won't cure.

That fault must be found and rectified first.

As a matter of interest all the BX except the 16 valve have the same braking system down to the pads and discs - and the 16valve only differs by the use of ventilated discs and a wider front caliper. The pads are the same as all the others.

So your N/A diesel has the same brakes as a 125bhp GTi which will go about 25 mph faster - so they should be up to the job.

[MULLEY]

Sorry guys, i think you've missed my point, sure enough the brakes are fine, but surely modern braking systems are much better, hence if you can improve your braking with better discs that get rid of the heat quicker & pads which offer more friction then surely you will stop quicker?

Hence my question.

So no one who's responded has any 1st hand knowledge?

p.s.

They werent for my lil old TXD, i was thinking of the Gti...

[Vanny]

its all about FADE!

EBC green stuff don't tend to put as much heat into the discs, keeping the brake discs and lines cooler, hot brake fluid (in the case of DOT4) goes spongey and brakes become rather pathetic when doing large amounts of braking (by large i mean significant deceleration over a short distance).

The benefits of EBC pads are slightly increased brake pad grip with reduced heat generation, at a cost of wear life. Average net gain for a daily driver is next to nothing! Some gains to be had on track though. But if your planing on racing and racing hard then i would tend towards red stuff EBC pads!

Grooved discs are a bit of a mystery as far as i am concerned. They keep some air flow under the pads to keep them a little cooler, the shape of the grooves help displace heat when free spinning, the grooves (and probably most significant) help to disperse water trapped between pad and disc (much the same as drilled discs). THe grooves do also help to aid traction as you have multiple biting edges (much like a clutch) but this will also help reduce the discs to shreds very quickly!

From personal experience, unless your likely to do serious braking in the wet then the benefits of drilled or grooved discs are rather minimal to that of using vented discs from the 16v! you can even keep the original caliper and simply swap the pad holding bracket, very easy.

for standard discs i would use either bendix or Brembo Red Spot discs (love the red spots, reasonably cheap, require little bedding in, last a very long time and thus far don't seem prone to warping like some cheap brands). For pads, fit Bendix every single time and remember to add lead in and out before fitting!


You want personal experience, i used to race a valver and thats what we found after tinkering with different setups and what i have worked from subsequently!

Still like Jeremy says, if you can't lock all four wheels with a stiff push of the brakes (and i guess with ABS off) then you need to be looking towards otehr issues!

[docchevron]

In short.
Yes, EBC Green stuff pads are very good.
I use them on both the cars and they grip REALLY well.
For normal driving there's naff all in it franklley, but as Vanny says, if you do track days, or drive the car like you stole it everywhere Green stuff pads are awesome.

Cross drilled and vented discs really are only required for track use, and even then the difference is negligable.

All in all though, if you're a sensible driver that doesn't have a death wish when behind the wheel, standard equipment is fine.

[AndersDK]

I wouldnt waste my money on the greenstuff. They are good, designed for extreme use, no doubt.

But the fact is that BX brakes are born VERY good, both on power and fade resistance.

Unless you are planning to run a street race championship everyday that is ...

[Geoffrey Gould]

Well I have been using them for a long time and find that they are the closest to the 'old' asbestos containing pads in the fact that they work without a period of delay that seems to happen with NON asbestos pads. they have a good feel and bite. When I say delay it's really a matter of feel. some non asbestos pads compared with the older pads do lack the ' bite ' and give a moment of 'is it going to act' and a push harder than strictly necessary, each to his/her own really I guess.
Being brought up on asbestos pads and AM4 material then that makes a difference.
A big plus is that they are very clean and dont make the amount of black dust that covers everything usually.
Anders I think you are being just a bit judgemental in saying that any one that uses EBC stuff is a racer, thats how I read it and it's wrong. They are good, they work, they have a good feel.
Cheers.
Geoff.

PS. I do run 16V discs and EBC pads as I found that the solid discs did tend to get quite hot and tended to warp and exhibit a small degree of fade. The reasons were I think that discs nowadays are of suspect quality sometimes and the material used does vary. ( Havnt tried some of the very expensive special discs.) also because it's an Auto and the brakes do get a lot of use, particularly in town.

[AndersDK]

Sort of Geoff -

Though I dont suspect you as a racer
Its just that most Golf or Astra owners thinks this is a must to make it a decent car.

If you find the BX is just slightly hesitating on standard brakes and material - you should first off suspect air in the brake lines or calipers. The air will never cause swampy pedal in hydraulic power brakes, as the brake valve is a doser valve, not a transfer cylinder for your foot pressure as it is on conventional systems.
The hydraulics needs time to compress the air - hence the brakes delay that causes you to overbrake.

Ever since day one in my first BX, I've always been very impressed and delighted by the very sharp and biting brakes. I will certainly miss that safe backbone feeling when the BX era has finished.

But admittingly I've yet to try the best available materials on the BX brakes.
Maybe I was born Scottish really ?

[MULLEY]

Cheers guys, some interesting feedback, when i've got some money i may experiment with some better pads etc.....anything to improve safety these days, especially in my non abs equipped txd

[Geoffrey Gould]

Ah Anders It's nothing to do with air. Perhaps I should have been a little more specific, having to modify braking systems that frankly were dangerous from well known manufacturers and having some experiance of brakes from 1920 to 1990 on a variety of vehicles then I believe that, with out turning this into an epic, then there is a very definate and marked difference in between the response of asbestos and non asbestos pads and linings.
Comparing the wear rates of drums ( and discs ) the non asbestos linings wore the drums out causing cracking and blueing and complaints of brakes that lacked bite. A very well known manufacturer had a vehicle that was used both as a comercial and mini-bus base and the pads ( standard as supplied OE) had to be replaced when no more than half worn because of cracking of the linings this only happened when non asbestos linings were introduced. This is just one example, there are many more.

It's a personal thing, the EBC pad gives the kind of feeling and response that is closer to asbestos as anything else.

There are of course different grades of EBC and I use standard black for the rear and green on the front.


50 years of riding/driving is habit forming and I prefer something as close to asbestos as possible.

Each to his own.
Cheers.
Geoff.

[docchevron]

Thats a good point dad.
In the good old days before tree huggers got all anal about lungs and health and all that rubbish we had asbestos linings. And they were good.
AM4 Ferodo was the best friction material I've EVER used.

Non asbestos linings are much harder and full of crap, which may be better for your lungs (so you have to smoke more to compensate!) but they do kill drums / discs much faster.

We get it in the bus industry too. It's now common practice to replace drums everytime the shoes get re-lined, and on a bus, thats VERY often.

Both my cars get driven hard, I've only had brake fade once, but it was enough!
I think the point dad was getting at was not the way the pedal feels, since it's just a tap, but the way the car feels when the brakes are applied.
There's a distinct difference between standard pads and EBC pads. They bite hard.

[AndersDK]

... naah I'm Scottish ...