Why????!!!!

BX Tech talk
User avatar
cavmad
Keeper of the site Goat
Posts: 7857
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 9:13 am

Why????!!!!

Post by cavmad » Sat Nov 05, 2005 4:26 pm

Have read on here recently that one is not supposed to drive with the suspension in `high` setting.
Being as dim as I am can someone explain why please and also why (aside from perhaps wheel changing) would they have a high position in the first place?
I thought it was when you are towing a caravan or had a full boot of junk? How far is it safe to drive in jigh as I`ve done it twice now-once to get car off back of truck (this morning) and once on a very boggy field.
Cheers people,
Vauxhall apologist.

User avatar
ken newbold
Over 2k
Posts: 4408
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 10:53 pm
x 5

Post by ken newbold » Sat Nov 05, 2005 4:29 pm

I think it mentions this in handbook as for driving slowly over obstacles and rough ground, loading and unloading and for getting car on and off trailers :lol:
They think it's all over, it is now!

User avatar
cavmad
Keeper of the site Goat
Posts: 7857
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 9:13 am

Post by cavmad » Sat Nov 05, 2005 4:35 pm

Cheers Ken. There`s no chance I`ll ever get a caravan so at least I won`t find out the hard way not to drive it constantly in high :lol:
Vauxhall apologist.

Mr B
Northern Moderator
Northern Moderator
Posts: 710
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 12:32 pm
Location: On a sofa, up the road from Marty!

Post by Mr B » Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:21 pm

On high there is no suspension travel at all, the tyres are the only thing with a bit of "give" You will end up bouncing all over the road and damage something. Its ok to use, as Ken says to clear rough ground but do so at dead slow speed.
1991 Landrover Discovery
1995 VW Golf SE

User avatar
mnde
Meteor Man
Posts: 1453
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:10 pm
Location: Old Woking, Surrey

Post by mnde » Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:06 pm

* Tries to imagine a BX towing a caravan in "high"... *

You'd probably get stopped by the police... the car would be bouncing all over the shop and the caravan would be tilted backwards at an awkward angle...

Erm... no.

Similary with "loads of junk" in the boot. The car can cope just fine in normal height. Why doesn't it bottom-out over bumps when you're five-up and have several bags of gravel in the back? Because the sphere dampers compensate for the extra load and damp the travel, effectively stiffening the ride. Is that what they mean by rising-rate?

Mark.
1982 Citroen GSA Spécial Estate
1997 Renault Mégane RT 1.4e
1991 Citroen BX16 TGS Meteor - gone to Scotland

User avatar
Philip Chidlow
Over 2k
Posts: 11566
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:08 pm
Location: Chelmsford, Essex
x 14

Post by Philip Chidlow » Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:17 pm

As I understand it, the normal setting is just that: It'll be the one you need for 99% of the time. The next setting, one 'notch' higher, is for clearing obstacles and for rough surfaces - like a rutted track (proceed at a reduced speed as the handling is compromised) and the hightest setting is for changing wheels only and it is strongly advised that you do not move along at all on this setting as you might break something. A technically-minded person will be able to expand on this, I'm sure.
• 1992 Citroen BX TZD Turbo Hurricane
• 2006 Xsara Picasso 1.6 16v

User avatar
sleepy0905
1K Away
1K Away
Posts: 1394
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:23 am
Location: Birchwood, Lincoln

Post by sleepy0905 » Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:46 pm

You run a risk of damaging the car at full hight if driven as there is no damping effect what so ever and the stresses and strains but through the suspension and chassis is getting prity close to the limits of what it is capable off i have asked this question before to various citroen experts snd this was the explenation they told me one of the old boys did tell a tail of a lower wishbone being snapped by someone driving on full hight to (get them home) but i have no way of checking this at all I do know a mechanic who had to change a snapped front subframe after the owner whent down a really bad potholed track on full hight to give the extra ground clearance. :shock: :roll:
2017 Seat Leon ST FR 2.0 150Bhp

User avatar
Philip Chidlow
Over 2k
Posts: 11566
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:08 pm
Location: Chelmsford, Essex
x 14

Post by Philip Chidlow » Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:52 pm

I remember now, it is something to do with the pistons in the suspension as, at full height they are only just 'in' and will snap off. Or did I dream it?

Anyway, the bottom line is have car a 'normal' all the time unless it's an emergency...
• 1992 Citroen BX TZD Turbo Hurricane
• 2006 Xsara Picasso 1.6 16v

jeremy
Over 2k
Posts: 2112
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:58 am
Location: Hampshire UK

Post by jeremy » Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:50 pm

Different types of adjustable suspensions perform in different ways. The BX suspension is self levelling - so within reason the car will ride at the same height whatever the load. Under normal use there is never any need to touch the height control but the occasional bit of Citroebics is probably good for it. Max height is in fact an open height corrector and the thing pumping at full regulator pressure - so no springs and lowest is with the thing on its bump stops.

Caravanners sometimes will sometimes adjust the height to aid hitching and unhitching and sometimes we for a picknic we will raise the thing fully and sit in the back of our estate.

More modern pneumatic suspensions (and some Citroen ones) do a bit more and for example a RangeRover one will lower the car when its travelling at speed on a smooth road. If you are towing a caravan this may kill you as the thing starts to snake so there is an override to stop this function.

Some like the Activa and Hydractive in its various forms do rather more but the BX ones are all the same.

jeremy

User avatar
Kitch
Over 2k
Posts: 6195
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:36 pm
Location: Fareham, Hants
x 48

Post by Kitch » Sun Nov 06, 2005 5:59 pm

I always thought it was there for maintainance only. And of course, its the setting you need to bleed the system in properly.

Hydractive and Activa are no different, but the C5 (HA3) and the forthcoming C6 adjust their height automatically to suit the conditions.

jeremy
Over 2k
Posts: 2112
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:58 am
Location: Hampshire UK

Post by jeremy » Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:44 pm

Incidentally is anyone an expert on the first generation Range Rover air suspesion as fitted to the Classic LWB in about 1993. My Father has one of these monsters which has this suspension which unfortunately was made by Lucas and so has ceased to work with an apparently untraceable fault which the experts have now conceded is electrical rather than something simple like a failed compressor.

The answer may well be to throw the whole vehicle away or alternatively throw the system away and fit steel springs but I really would like to annoy everyone and get it working. Anyone ever worked on one?

jeremy

User avatar
Vanny
Merseyside resident
Merseyside resident
Posts: 3438
Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 11:48 pm
Location: BX Pub
My Cars: BX 16v Ph2
x 15

Post by Vanny » Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:10 pm

Hmmm, has no one else seen the picture of the Xantia which was drivin with the suspension on high. The thing hit a speed bump or something and having no available travel the struts came through the wings and out of the bonnet!!!! Most deffinately not something i would want to try and fix myself :D

User avatar
sleepy0905
1K Away
1K Away
Posts: 1394
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:23 am
Location: Birchwood, Lincoln

Post by sleepy0905 » Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:44 pm

no where is this picture that i would like to see? :lol:
2017 Seat Leon ST FR 2.0 150Bhp

User avatar
ken newbold
Over 2k
Posts: 4408
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 10:53 pm
x 5

Post by ken newbold » Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:50 pm

There was one in Citroenian some time ago. Xantia's have a similar strut the the XM. The flat part at the top that bolts to the inner wing is sort of embedded in a thin rubber. Great no rust. However the rubber cracks, water gets in and rots the metal plate. One good bang on the suspension and you have a reshaped bonnet at best.

I've changed one in this condition on a xantia, did wonder if thats why they never made plastic bonnets for these things.
They think it's all over, it is now!

User avatar
DavidRutherford
BX Digit man!
Posts: 2704
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 5:07 pm
Location: Placing comments on YouTube.

Post by DavidRutherford » Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:58 pm

jeremy wrote:Incidentally is anyone an expert on the first generation Range Rover air suspesion as fitted to the Classic LWB in about 1993. My Father has one of these monsters which has this suspension which unfortunately was made by Lucas and so has ceased to work with an apparently untraceable fault which the experts have now conceded is electrical rather than something simple like a failed compressor.

The answer may well be to throw the whole vehicle away or alternatively throw the system away and fit steel springs but I really would like to annoy everyone and get it working. Anyone ever worked on one?
I have, and they are a complete bar-steward. The main component to fail is the electronic height detector. Many vehicles are now running on steel rather than air.

Maybe you could rip the system out, and put citroen hydropneumatic struts in it! A range rover with an LHM tank..... I'd put money on it being the most comfortable riding Range rover ever.
this might be a signature