Water Pump

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kiwi
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Water Pump

Post by kiwi »

Has anyone changed one in a BX or Pug? Is second hand one you know was not leaking an option? what kind of price (as a guideline new) and any idea of invoicing times to do the job if it is not recommended to do yourself?

Come to the conclussion that is where my missing water problem lies, the car has been idle for over week yet has lost water and none on the floor or visible leaking. It was suggested the water pump could be leaking which sounds beetr than headgasket.
1991 BX19 TZS 04/01/91 (Deceased)
1990 BX19 TRS 27/10/89 (Reborn)
1992 BX19 TXD (Ex UK - K 744 SDF) 15/06/92
1990 BX19 TZS Auto 06/11/1989
1992 BX TZD Turbo Estate (Ex UK) 1/07/91
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DavidRutherford
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Post by DavidRutherford »

I wouldn't re-use a water pump as they're dead cheap. Changing one is a bit interesting though as the cambelt has to come off.
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kermit the frog
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Post by kermit the frog »

NO NEVER :!: reuse a water pump.
as Dave say's they are cheap and they are driven by the timing belt which is why you have to remove the timing belt to replace it.
if you are going to replace the pump replace the timing belt at the same time.

water pump failure - engine failure it's that simple.

somewhere on the forum i have seen a how to do timing belt post
if i am wrong i am sure the DOC 8) can guide you in the right direction.

Regards Kermit :)
ALAN S an oracle of knowledge sadly missed by us all RIP Mate
Green Hornet well I don't really know.GS project gone to pastures new
Blue Streak 1996(P) XANTIA VSX TD (130K.)
kiwi
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Post by kiwi »

So how do you know if the water pump has failed? Before the engine blows up that is.
1991 BX19 TZS 04/01/91 (Deceased)
1990 BX19 TRS 27/10/89 (Reborn)
1992 BX19 TXD (Ex UK - K 744 SDF) 15/06/92
1990 BX19 TZS Auto 06/11/1989
1992 BX TZD Turbo Estate (Ex UK) 1/07/91
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DavidRutherford
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Post by DavidRutherford »

If its dripping water out from the bottom/back of the cambelt, that's a surefire indication that the water pump liquid seal has failed.

Similar to a leaking radiator, it could be serious, or it could be nothing more serious than having to top up the coolant ad-nauseum until you fix it.

Leaky water pumps tend to leak less when the engine is running.
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kiwi
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Post by kiwi »

Thanks David that seems to be the problem on long drives can get away with it but these short runs (40km) seems to happen quite quicky or in the most recent case not using the car. I suspect it is leaking internally if thats possible?

The other curious thing now we are talking about this is I went to a city for a week at sea level (we live at 600m and loiter aroun that altitude or higher)
In that week I never topped the radiator up even with short trips that it did, so maybe some truth to the pressure theory as well?
1991 BX19 TZS 04/01/91 (Deceased)
1990 BX19 TRS 27/10/89 (Reborn)
1992 BX19 TXD (Ex UK - K 744 SDF) 15/06/92
1990 BX19 TZS Auto 06/11/1989
1992 BX TZD Turbo Estate (Ex UK) 1/07/91
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DavidRutherford
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Post by DavidRutherford »

kiwi wrote: I suspect it is leaking internally if thats possible?
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that. A water pump will fail when the liquid seal on the driveshaft goes crispy and leaks coolant along it. Many years ago that coolant would then contaminate the bearings and knacker them, so the first indication you had of water pump failure was the grumble of knackered bearings, shortly followed by the water pump flapping about in the breeze.

These days, there is a dribble hole between the fluid seal and the bearings, which allows any leaked coolant to drain out without ruining the bearings. This means you can at least get home with a leaky pump without the bearing failing, which would probably ruin the cambelt in a few miles.

Water pump seal failures are very odd things. Sometimes they leak less with the pressure cap off, but sometimes that aggravates the issue.

you can absolutely guarantee that it's the water pump by simply removing the cambelt covers and have a look at the water pump dribble hole (which is just below and behind the drive pulley) If there's a dribble stain on the pump housing, it's dead.
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kiwi
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Post by kiwi »

Thanks for explaining that I will be looking at that now a bit more closely.

Like I said its just a bit odd that the car loses water whilst parked for a few days but no drips evident. Someone said seepage into the engine which I assume now from your description is more than likey the Head Gasket.

This little problem has driven me nuts at least its water and not oil which costs more :lol:
1991 BX19 TZS 04/01/91 (Deceased)
1990 BX19 TRS 27/10/89 (Reborn)
1992 BX19 TXD (Ex UK - K 744 SDF) 15/06/92
1990 BX19 TZS Auto 06/11/1989
1992 BX TZD Turbo Estate (Ex UK) 1/07/91
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kermit the frog
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Post by kermit the frog »

Sorry KIWI :(
If i confused you i should have said water pump failure=cam belt failure=engine failure.
because the water pump is driven by the cam/timing belt and not an auxiliary belt if it fails and the belt snaps.
thing's like valves and pistons suddenly and dramatically become up close and personal if you know what i mean BANG NO GO!

Regards Kermit :)
ALAN S an oracle of knowledge sadly missed by us all RIP Mate
Green Hornet well I don't really know.GS project gone to pastures new
Blue Streak 1996(P) XANTIA VSX TD (130K.)
kiwi
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Post by kiwi »

Na Kermmy you did not confuse me.

The engine will blow up if it runs out of water either way. This problem like I said been driving me nuts even the pressure test by the garage found nothing.

Before you say it Rad cap replaced twice, Thermostat twice and there is no internal leakage (as in interior of car near heater).
1991 BX19 TZS 04/01/91 (Deceased)
1990 BX19 TRS 27/10/89 (Reborn)
1992 BX19 TXD (Ex UK - K 744 SDF) 15/06/92
1990 BX19 TZS Auto 06/11/1989
1992 BX TZD Turbo Estate (Ex UK) 1/07/91
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kermit the frog
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Post by kermit the frog »

Might be barking up the wrong tree here.
But i had a similar thing with my TZD this year and it turned out to be a combination of a blocked rad and a knackered fan switch.
Mine to was ok on long runs due to the amount of air flowing through the rad.
This could also explain what you were saying about altitude and air pressure.
Because water boils at a lower temperature at altitude a blocked rad and inoperable fans would make the problem worse.
And less air to flow through the rad.
Is there any evidence of water comming out of the overflow hole below the rad cap.
Good luck hope this helps. :!:

Regards Kermit :)
ALAN S an oracle of knowledge sadly missed by us all RIP Mate
Green Hornet well I don't really know.GS project gone to pastures new
Blue Streak 1996(P) XANTIA VSX TD (130K.)
kiwi
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Post by kiwi »

Well yea there is water coming ou the rad overflow simply because I fill it right up and expansion will push it out.

Good point about the switch though! I have a spare switch from the other BX 16 (mines 19) so once I work out which silver thingy it is and not replace the dim dip one :? will try that fro a few weeks.

As for the Rad well that thoughts been there for a while but the checks suggested here in the past have proved inconclussive. I am tempted to put in the unblocked 1600 rad...But as you know thats much smaller could create a bigger problem.

95% of this cars driving is on 100kph roads so plenty of airflow, even those short trips
1991 BX19 TZS 04/01/91 (Deceased)
1990 BX19 TRS 27/10/89 (Reborn)
1992 BX19 TXD (Ex UK - K 744 SDF) 15/06/92
1990 BX19 TZS Auto 06/11/1989
1992 BX TZD Turbo Estate (Ex UK) 1/07/91
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kermit the frog
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Post by kermit the frog »

Hi
The fan awitch should be screwed into the rad near the bottom possibly on the drivers side it may have 2 or 3 connections
If you can get to the fan connections behind the front bumper/grille
You may have to unscrew the 2 torx head screws through the 2 holes in the grille these are bumper screws (i think they are t30 torx screws)
Try connecting some heavy wire to them and check that they work by connecting them across the battery (BE CAREFULL)

One other thing as it is getting F*****g COLD here it must be warm where you are and this could be contributing to the problem.
Have a nice summer

Regards Kermit :)
ALAN S an oracle of knowledge sadly missed by us all RIP Mate
Green Hornet well I don't really know.GS project gone to pastures new
Blue Streak 1996(P) XANTIA VSX TD (130K.)
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