Pinion valve on a valver

[Kitch]

PS difference between power and non power assistance???

Dunno if I've read that wrong, but if it had no PAS would it even have a pinion valve?

[AlanS]

Never seen a BX without PAS as all we ever got here had it, but I'd say you would have a pinion to run on the rack directly connected to the steering column.
I'd imagine the gear ratio between the rack and pinion would also be different wouldn't it?

With PAS pf course, there's the ram that feeds all the "rooms and doors" on the valve associated with the pinion and again the non PAS wouldn't need or have that.


Alan S

[docchevron]

Quite so.
No worries dad, it really didn't matter, had the spare rack.
Win some lose some..

The gearing is lower on a non PAS car so yes, the racks are very different, and indeed, non PAS cars dont have a pinion valve!

The difference between the two types of rack I've encountered isn't a gearing issue.
Externally the racks look indentical.
It's all internal, the bushes are different, the rack teeth are diferent, and as a result the pinion is different.
There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it either.
I've seen both types on F plate cars, J plate cars and K plate cars...

[Geoffrey Gould]

Who's a stupid pillock then, non power steering with a pinion valve, must remember to put my brain in gear, that will teach me to try and reach for explanations and twist facts to fit the picture. DOH.
Will someone kindly fit me with a silencer Please.
Cheers.
Geoff.

[charlie]

re pinion valve

oscar gives a good descrition of the job

and i have me two pence worht as well

http://bxclub.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php ... highlight=

[jeremy]

Kitch - of all people Eurocarparts are listing a power rack for about £75 and a pinion valve for a bit more. It may be that the pinion is not included with the rack.

They are also listing a 16 valve radiator for £82.

Have you still got useful contacts there?

Curiously they do not list driveshafts for the 16 valve but do list them for TD's - and they are the same part! (With and without ABS for TD)

Marston Radiators are highly spoken of by the Rover P4 club - they repair and manufacture the things and have been doing so for many years - they are in an old shed on the A27 at Bursledon - clearly visible when travelling fron Swanick towards Southampton.

[docchevron]

Curiously they do not list driveshafts for the 16 valve but do list them for TD's - and they are the same part! (With and without ABS for TD)

No they aint.
When GSF could be arsed to sell them, they sold them as the same part for TD/16V but they most definetley are not the same.
Not genuine ones anyhow.

[Kevin B]

Ref: Pinion valve replacement.

When you replace the pinion valve, you may like to carefully scutinize the condition of the rubber flex coupling.
As driving a car for any period of time with a defective power steering will drastically shorten the life expectancy of this component (due to the extra drag of the non operational power assistance) as I recently found out.
Its also a MOT failure point for obvoius reasons, and its an easy job to deal with at the same time if you need to.
Do not order one from the likes of GSF as there offering is only suitable for non power steering applications (although they swear blind it will also fit power steering applications). You can make it fit by recycling the part from the old coupling which clamps to the pinion valve output spline, and using cap screws to bolt it to the new flex coupling.
Pinion valve replacement is a fiddly job, having some flare nut spanners will make life much easier, as the pipework connections will be tight and awkward to get to.
With a careful and methodical approach pinion valve overhaul is easily posible yourself, if you take your time, read up on the relevant postings, and also obtain a set of O ring picks as these are invaluable for getting the seals into there respective grooves without twisting or dmaging them.

Although a moot point I would consider it to be preferable to recondition and refit your old pinion valve as the pinion gear flanks have now worn to suit the rack gear teeth after a 100,000 or so miles of driving.

[Kitch]

I'll have to speak to ECP, I've still got contacts there. I may just ring Dorys in Sway and get a quote for them to overhaul the pinion valve though....with my limited tools and space it'd be an arse to get to and put right. I've got to concern myself with the head and other little things that need sorting!
I think you mean Wessex radiators in Lowford, nr Bursledon? They recore rads and keep ringing me at work to ask for business....maybe I'll ask them to do a personal one

As for the shafts, at ECP we used to sell TD/16v ones as one and the same (all BX shafts were except 14's....only difference being whether they had ABS or not). The genuine numbers they used to cross reference them were the same, although it was an old catalogue. I've actually got some TD ones on the valver now.....hope they don't snap

I'll take a look at Oscar's description, but I've pretty much decided I've not got the room or tools (or patience). I loath the jobs on these cars where you can't get to things easily

Kevin: Thanks for the heads up

[docchevron]

They wont snap, but the yokes are beefier on "REAL" 16v shafts, TD joints just dont last as long.
Needless to say my valver has proper shafts, and the difference in the yokes is immediatley obvious.

If you get a pinion and need some help to fit it, give us a nod.

[AndersDK]

No intensions to hurt anyones feet (which I'll probably do anyway ), but here is the Citroen service net parts listings for the steering rack and pinion.

Notes : there are still quite a few more bits & bops available than listed here, but left out for clarity.
Code "NFP" denotes "no more available" as genuine part. But the part no is valid for any stockist of new or re-build parts, like ECP or Pleiades.
The pinion valve is BTW very easy to rebuild yourself, by help of the repair kit listed.
There is absolutely NO indications anywhere that the valver uses any different rack or pinion from other petrols powersteering fitted. Its the diesel and 4x4 that are specials in this aspect.


drawing
13/10/07 - 1230 03 4426 10 STEERING ASSISTANCE VALVE
POWER STEERING

item
01
4048.G3 - PINION VALVE LEFT HAND DRIVE
4048.G1 - DIESEL FUEL AND XUD7 PUMP 6+2 LEFT HAND DRIVE

03
95.630.094 - (flexible) COUPLING

09
4048.Q8 - REPAIR KIT

51
4048.G2 - NFP - PINION VALVE - RIGHT HAND DRIVE

59
4048.Q8 - REPAIR KIT RIGHT HAND DRIVE

drawing
28/09/07 - 1230 03 4420 11 STEERING BOX AND RODS
POWER STEERING
NOTE: 1 POS:"LEMFORDER"
2 POS: "ENHRENRIECH"

item
01
95.615.724 - STEERING BOX
4056.48 - NFP
95.648.476 - NFP - 4X4

51
95.615.725 - NFP - STEERING BOX RIGHT HAND DRIVE
95.654.191 - NFP - RIGHT HAND DRIVE AND 4X4

drawing
28/09/07 - 1230 03 4420 10 STEERING BOX AND RODS
EXCEPT POWER STEERING
NOTE: 1 POS: "LEMFORDER"
2 POS: "EHRENRIECH"

item
01
95.615.722 STEERING BOX LEFT HAND DRIVE

51
95.615.723 - NFP - STEERING BOX PETROL AND RIGHT HAND DRIVE
95.602.829 - NFP - DIESEL FUEL AND RIGHT HAND DRIVE

[Kevin B]

Anders.

Can you please indicate the differences on the TD and 4x4 steering racks, when compared to steering racks found on other models.

Would I be correct in assuming they have a different steering ratio ?

Thanks.

[docchevron]

There is absolutely NO indications anywhere that the valver uses any different rack or pinion from other petrols powersteering fitted. Its the diesel and 4x4 that are specials in this aspect.

I didn't see anyone saying they were?

There are however two different types of rack, or rather, two different teeth types.
I'll get some piccies when I'm next in the position to have two racks side by side.

No idea about the 4x4, never had one..
But the diesel rack looks no different to a valver rack to me?
Or am I missing something??

[AndersDK]

The Citroen genuine parts documentation is loud & clear on this issue.
I would like to base any further discussions on facts rather on assumptions and/or any variants of supplier casting details found on different units of the same type, as both Lemförder & Ehrenreich were suppliers of these racks.

Here are the genuine full parts listings :


Here you can find a copy of the genuine service documents :
http://www.rwbsmith.plus.com/citroen2/steering/

About the ratios used on the different model variants, I must point to general specifications on each vehicle type in question. I regret I did not have the spare time & guts to look up these specs.
But try surf Brij's site http://citroenz.com/ or Gabors BXDIY site http://www.tramontana.co.hu/citroen/

The diesels have a quite violent low rpm torque and the 4x4 would be used in circumstances needing a much better grip on the steering wheel, which calls out for a lower rack ratio. Also note the fact that the 4x4 transfer box lump is taking up much more space where the rack, exhaust downpipe, antirollbar, height controller linkage etc. would normally be located. These facts mixed up with different LHD/RHD layouts calls out for quite a few variations in the parts listed as spares.
Note here that the 4x4 front subframe is quite different in layout from the 2wd's.

I suspect however that as much parts, bits & bops as ever possible are the same over the variants of steering racks in question. Anything else would NOT be sensible.

Please note that a range of peugeot cars (309, 405) uses the exact same racks, with only a small selection of bits being different - like trackrod ends etc.

PS : I forgot to mention that new/rebuild racks comes (at least genuine ones from Citroen) complete with pinion valve, track rod ends and bellows. Not sure if the ram cylinder is included. But that would be somewhat indicated by the pricetag.

[docchevron]

I would like to base any further discussions on facts rather on assumptions

I'd like £20,000,000 and a house in the Maldives, but that aint gona happen either.

I can go by the "facts" of actual real racks as removed from the cars, as I have several. They are not make believe or assumed.

However, I think the answer lies in your own post thus:

The diesels have a quite violent low rpm torque

So the gearing is different on the diesel. If so, that would account for the splines on the pinion to be different to the petrol, which would explain the two types I have on the shelf yes?
Having a large selection of racks as I do, from many different BX's, some petrol, some diesel etc etc I couldn't say which rack came from which car, but that seems a totally plausable explaination to me, I never realised the gearing was different between petrol and diesel, they feel the same in my cars....

PS : I forgot to mention that new/rebuild racks comes (at least genuine ones from Citroen) complete with pinion valve, track rod ends and bellows. Not sure if the ram cylinder is included. But that would be somewhat indicated by the pricetag.

I've never yet bought one from GSF or Citroën that do come ith the ram, although ECP used to sell complete racks with rams, whether or not that is still the case I do not know at this time.