Pinion valve on a valver

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AndersDK
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Post by AndersDK »

I feel some kind of dejavu here :lol:
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Post by docchevron »

I feel ill, Carlsberg is shite. But it was free. Which is a good job, cos I'd if I'd payed for it I'd be really mad.
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Post by Vanny »

i've just sat and had a thought, i've seen/had/have 8 different BX racks and never noticed any difference, i have infact swapped pinions betwixt all of these racks however (and this is the important bit) they where all of 16v's from e-reg to j-reg, i had never even considered that they might be different tbh
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Post by docchevron »

I reckon thats what Anders was getting at when he said they are all the same, and then said they wern't since the diesel and 4x4 racks are different.

If the gearing is different on the diesel, then the pinion "gear" itself must be different, which explains the two variations of pinion gear I have here.
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Post by Vanny »

would there be any need to have the diesels and petrols different? i'd have thought the pressures through the rack will be the same and thus the asistance the same, the track rods are the same length so its not like you gain or loose turning circle, and the difference in engine weight must be pretty unimportant (when considering the effect of the PAS). Perhaps the 16v rack is a little quicker? but then i can't say i've noticed much difference between them and other bxies.

Shame there are no BX's in the local scrap yards as it would be rather interesting to find out a definative answer for myself.
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Post by AndersDK »

Your arguments are logic Vanny -

Not sure I'm based on facts for a fact on the gear ratio facts of the diesel racks. I just stumbled over the note from parts list saying "diesel & 6+2 hyd pump" which may be the real issue. Not the gear ratio but something to do with a different pressure source - even just a different piping port.
The last few bunch of BX diesels were sold with the Xantia power steering setup.
The 4x4 issue I believe (not a fact !) is on the rack box external design because of space issues due to the transfer box.

But please note that the 2 different suppliers Lemförder & Ehrenreich still calls out for any minor exterior casting differences - still the units are directly interchangeable.

Also in the Citroen service document there is no indications of any different gear ratios for the power steering rack - which further puts my facts on real thin ice. Only one ratio is ever mentioned, namely 2.83 full turns stop to stop.

Anyways - my real intensions were to bring up such type of discussion we just had - where all good heads butts in with their 5cents on the issue. Love it :D
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Post by Vanny »

AndersDK wrote: saying "diesel & 6+2 hyd pump" which may be the real issue. Not the gear ratio but something to do with a different pressure source - even just a different piping port.
The last few bunch of BX diesels were sold with the Xantia power steering setup.
Well that would explain the differences with regard the pinion part numbers as if it had the style (sytle because the xantia rack wont fit) xantia PAS setup (and this is the first i have ever heard mention of it, ever) then it would more than likely have the Xantia sized pipes so it would have the 6mm intake bore and the 3mm return. The xantia pinion valve is its self bigger in numerous dimensions and most certainly doesn't fit in the BX rack (well not the pinion of the later models any how) so perhaps its a whole Xantia rack?
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Post by Kitch »

So we're saying that there are more thank one type of valve, that theres no way of telling which valve I need and that it's an asshole to change? :lol:
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Post by AndersDK »

Kitch wrote:So we're saying that there are more thank one type of valve, that theres no way of telling which valve I need and that it's an asshole to change? :lol:
Ungefähr so mein herr ... :lol:
But chances are that any pinion valve you dig up would fit the hole, avec bonne chance comme ci comme ca ... :wink:
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Post by Vanny »

it's not an ass to change, just a little bit fiddly, i'd have thought its well without your mechanical capabilities mate, just make sure you do it some where warm!! Oh and i would have to echo the thoughts on doing the hardy disc at the same time.
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Post by Kitch »

Well I've decided to change the unit for a Pleidies (sp?) one and to do the rubber coupling at the same time. I'm also thinking it might be an idea to do the doseur valve as whenever I stand on the pedal it ticks away like mad, yet it hardly ticks at all when the car is running.
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Post by Kitch »

Well while the engine was out for me to change the stuffed gearbox (which now looks like it may have been the clutch all along!) I changed the rack for a new unit complete with pinion, along with the ram and the LHM.

No PAS. Language was fairly colourful in my garage yesterday.

I'm totally stumped. We've ruled out the doseur having any effect on it as the car stays up overnight; it hardly sinks. The tick time is in hours rather than seconds and everything elses is A-ok.

The FDV and pump are both from a car which had fully functioning PAS. only possiblity I can clutch at so far is that I may have hooked the pipes up wrong on the FDV at some point in the past, which I'm told knackers the FDV. Even if you switch them back after it won't work, so now I'm looking at overhauling a spare FDV or replacing it with a unit from Pleidies. If that doesn't work, it's another pump. If that doesn't work it's a box of matches and a can of petrol.


On another note I also overhauled all the tappets. Tapping noise is still there.....looks like it could be a bent valve :roll:
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Post by AlanS »

Kitch wrote:Well while the engine was out for me to change the stuffed gearbox (which now looks like it may have been the clutch all along!) I changed the rack for a new unit complete with pinion, along with the ram and the LHM.

No PAS. Language was fairly colourful in my garage yesterday.

I'm totally stumped. We've ruled out the doseur having any effect on it as the car stays up overnight; it hardly sinks. The tick time is in hours rather than seconds and everything elses is A-ok.

Point A: The FDV and pump are both from a car which had fully functioning PAS. only possiblity I can clutch at so far is that I may have hooked the pipes up wrong on the FDV at some point in the past, which I'm told knackers the FDV. Even if you switch them back after it won't work, so now I'm looking at overhauling a spare FDV or replacing it with a unit from Pleidies. If that doesn't work, it's another pump. If that doesn't work it's a box of matches and a can of petrol.


Point B: On another note I also overhauled all the tappets. Tapping noise is still there.....looks like it could be a bent valve
:roll:

Point A:- I would suggest that the diagnosis that the FDV is piped in assup is possibly correct.

I have had a couple that have been done like that and haven't had a problem when they've been corrected. I'd be inclined to pull it out, give it a good old wash in petrol and reconnect in case the internal filters are also choked with crap and just see what happens. They're a weird thing them in as much as they appear to only be capable of connecting the one way when you pull them out, but on reassembly it catches you out. I usually tag the pipes as I pull them off.

Point B:- I may or may not have mentioned this before on here, but I had a rattly tappet or two on my car until I did the cambelt. When I did, I noticed it seemed too loose between the camsprockets, so I slightly altered my method of setting the belt, particularly as it concerns the fitting on the camsprockets and when started, bingo!!! No more rattle.
Unless the engine has had a serious misadventure, there is no logical reason for any valve stem to be bent unless you've snapped a cambelt and the noise has been there ever since the engine was reassembled. Valve stems don't just bend for no reason and if it were a tooth or two out on the belt which had caused valves and pistons to meet, it wouldn't be one rattling, it would be 16 of the buggers. :wink: :roll:
Hope that's some help to you.


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Post by jeremy »

If a valve stem was bent - the valve wouldn't shut - and the engine would only run on 3 cylinders - which would of course be very noticeable at idle - and would show up on a compression test.

I'll look at the FDV on my TD tomorrow and list the pipe order for you.
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Post by docchevron »

Kitch wrote: No PAS. Language was fairly colourful in my garage yesterday.

I'm totally stumped. We've ruled out the doseur having any effect on it as the car stays up overnight; it hardly sinks. The tick time is in hours rather than seconds and everything elses is A-ok.

The FDV and pump are both from a car which had fully functioning PAS. only possiblity I can clutch at so far is that I may have hooked the pipes up wrong on the FDV at some point in the past, which I'm told knackers the FDV. Even if you switch them back after it won't work, so now I'm looking at overhauling a spare FDV or replacing it with a unit from Pleidies. If that doesn't work, it's another pump. If that doesn't work it's a box of matches and a can of petrol.


On another note I also overhauled all the tappets. Tapping noise is still there.....looks like it could be a bent valve :roll:
Ah, hadn't thought of a pipe mix up!
Now, if the pipe that goes to the PR was swopped with the pipe next to it (on the bottom of the FDV) then that would eliminate PAS...
hhmm.....

As for the tappets, whats the oil flow like to the head?
Could it be that the filter in the head is bunged up and restricting oil pressure?
Were the tapets you fitted rattle free before?
Did you Burp them before fitting?
Bent valve I dont think it is, whilst your idle is a bit lumoy it's sweet enough for a valver, and sounds fine as soon as you stick your foot on the warp drive pedal...
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