Injector pump decision

Post by **mat_fenwick** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:57 pm

I am converting a 1.7TD to NA, to replace a 1.9NA engine in a ZX. I will be swapping the camshaft, so I can drive the ZX vacuum pump, but my question is this:
Can I simply blank off the boost pipe on the injector pump and still have correct fuelling through the rev range? Or should I swap the pumps over as well? Not a big job, but I would be worried about the 1.9 pump overfuelling the smaller engine.

I hope someone with more knowledge on the subject can shed a bit of light...

DavidRutherford · Post by **DavidRutherford** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:51 pm

ooh.... there's a whole load of issues there.

I believe that the injection pump will need re-calibrating if you plan to use a TD pump on a N/A engine. If you have access to a N/A type pump, that would be the better plan, and you can just turn the max fuelling down a bit.

The compression rato is of course wrong for a N/A engine, so you'll be loosing a little bit of power throughout the range. Also you'll have to do something with the turbo oil feed and return on the back of the engine.

However, the most serious problem is that the oil feed for the vacuum pump is blocked off on a BX head, so if you fit the vac pump to it, it will run dry and sieze. You not only need the correct camshaft, but you also need the correct head without the (non-removeable-without-knackering-the-head) bung in the oilway.

You did mention about looking for a "drop in" engine for this ZX, and I know I mentioned about having a ZX engine coming up very soon.... well... It will be very soon indeed. Is it essential that the car be sorted right now? Alternatively, I do still have a 1.9D complete engine available from a 309, with the correct camshaft to drive the vac pump and the correct oil feed.... in fact, it already has the vac-pump fitted.

Interested?

Post by **mat_fenwick** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:20 pm

DavidRutherford wrote:Interested?

Well...yes really (did you get my PM?) However, given the guy's financial situation I started to think a replacement engine wasn't an option (I'm not just saying that to knock down the price!) I think even the transport cost would be prohibitative). I was hoping to do most of the swapping tomorrow.

But now you have pointed out the flaw(s) in my cunning little plan, a drop-in replacement may be the simplest way. If you could let me know the price of your various engines, and where you are located I will have a word with my friend and see what he thinks.

I suppose the other option is using the seperate vacuum pump from a 205, but 60 miles to the nearest decent scrapyard is a bit of a pain...

DavidRutherford · Post by **DavidRutherford** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:25 am

mat_fenwick wrote:I suppose the other option is using the seperate vacuum pump from a 205, but 60 miles to the nearest decent scrapyard is a bit of a pain...

That then brings up yet more issues, in that you need to fit the camshaft with the correct offset for the vac pump pulley rather than the HP pump pulley (irritatingly, they are different) and you need the different inlet manifold with the mountings for the vac pump.

Remind me where you are... I am due to be in south wales tomorrow, so could bring the 309 engine with me when I come. Have you also considered the problems that you may find with the engine out such as duff engine mounts etc? The 309 engine I have here has a fairly recent clutch and a moderately recent cambelt, so it would go for a while yet.

Post by **mat_fenwick** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:38 am

[quote="DavidRutherford]That then brings up yet more issues, in that you need to fit the camshaft with the correct offset for the vac pump pulley rather than the HP pump pulley (irritatingly, they are different) and you need the different inlet manifold with the mountings for the vac pump.[/quote]

Oh great, fetch me a tin opener so I can get into that big can marked 'WORMS'

I have a 205 camshaft than I was going to use in the Xantia engine I am putting in my BX - do you mean than the pulleys are different or (as I think you mean) the camshafts are different

) I'm thinking of my engine swap now, I suppose I could use a few spacers to bring things into line. Or I could use my existing BX cam.

Back to the matter in hand - I am in North Wales, roughly about 4 hours drive from most of South Wales... But, nearer I think, than your home address! How much would you want for the 309 engine if I came and met you? And how would we transfer it? (My hoist is too big to fit in the back when I am carrying an engine I think!)

I will PM you my phone number. Thanks for the response, even if it is news I didn't want to hear...

DavidRutherford · Post by **DavidRutherford** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:49 am

mat_fenwick wrote:Oh great, fetch me a tin opener so I can get into that big can marked 'WORMS'

I have a 205 camshaft than I was going to use in the Xantia engine I am putting in my BX - do you mean than the pulleys are different or (as I think you mean) the camshafts are different ) I'm thinking of my engine swap now, I suppose I could use a few spacers to bring things into line. Or I could use my existing BX cam.

I believe, although I'm not sure, that the camshaft length is different for HP drive or Vac-pump drive. I know for sure that the 405 camshaft designed to drive a vac pump and a PAS pump on the 1769cc TD engine is not interchangeable with a BX hp-drive camshaft.

I'd stick with the BX shaft. Bear in mind that no matter which shaft you use you will have to re-shim it, which is a bit of a bore.

As for me, I'm down in Dorset. Trundling up through Wales, however, might take a fair while longer than coming up the M5/6, as I can make it to Liverpool in just over 4hrs from mine.

Post by **mat_fenwick** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:56 am

That's one of the delights of living in rural Wales, takes an hour and a half just to get onto the motorway network... I would guesstimate a good 6-7 hours to get down to Dorset from where we are.

I am potentially interested in the 309 engine if we can meet up tomorrow, even if I have to help my mate out with cash, at least it might save me some time! How much do you want for it, and will the oval port ZX manifold fit onto the head without too much grief?

DavidRutherford · Post by **DavidRutherford** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:04 am

The Oval-or-Square port nature of the head is the exhaust rather than the inlet ports. The 309 engine will come with its exhaust manifold, but I believe an oval-port manifold will fit a square-port head. I know the other way around (square-port manifold on an oval-port head) does not work well at all.

I'm guessing you won't need the inlet manifold either.

Post by **mat_fenwick** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:29 am

No thanks, I can use the ZX inlet manifold. Thanks for the clarification, I have just PM'd you asking the same question, sorry!