Calling the plumbers amongst you!

Vanny · Post by **Vanny** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:14 pm

Oh joy! My main hydraulic feed to the rear has burst and pumped out all the fluid between No 41 and 59 on my street (which is small terraces).

So new pipes (no its not the brake curly pipes its is the main feed pipe) all the way through, its a J reg and i thought with plastic pipes i might be safe! Obviously not!

So theres a repipe on the horrizon and i need to decide;
a) buy new pipes from Citroen, pre shaped
b) patch it and hope (but its in a bugger of a position)
c) buy the tools and do the whole lot in Kunifer

Looking for experiences and advice on all the options, going to finish my dissertation and cry a little!

ken newbold · Post by **ken newbold** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:48 pm

OR

scrap it

sorry

Vanny · Post by **Vanny** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:51 pm

its not an XM so there is a good chance it will be easy to fix

acutally that used to me my mothers first answer everytime the car had a fault, not this time though, think she's realised its here to stay. Just need the other half to make the same realisation

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:52 pm

Its worth buying the tool if you're going to use it enough o warrant the not inconsiderable cost.

Otherwise the cheapest option is going to e a new pipe from Citroen.

Presumably what has happened is that the plastic cover has been cut when the pipe was fitted.

Longevity of the Citroen pipe probably won't be an issue as you won't be keeping the car for another 15 years!

Vanny · Post by **Vanny** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:30 pm

ha not keeping it for another 15 years, i'm gonna try at least!

but seriously, i'm likely to continue to play with correctly atired citroens for a long time so the tool cost is an investment, but is it a good investment? Anyone have any idea on prices? I'm expecting the screw together Pleiades one to cost £70 to £90 (though i know a Bristol lad who might lend me one!).

I've already got another car needing a patch or repipe . . . hmmm

Does anyone know if the new pipes are Kunifer from Citroen?

I think i'll have to get on the phone to Citroen tomorrow.

jonathan_dyane · Post by **jonathan_dyane** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:43 pm

BAd luck...

The Citroen pipes supplied are not copper, they are still the plastic coated mild steel. If you go down this route, do fit them very carefully, as if the coating is nicked on fitment they won't have a long life...

If you intend to run hydraulic citroens for the forseeable, I would definatley plump for the pliedes tool and a nice big coil of copper pipe! Bit longer to make, but will hold you in goodstead; worth its wait in gold! You'll probably find a couple more to do whilst you're under there too. Don't forget to order new fittings and seals too tho...

I'd have offered to give you a hand at the weekend, but sadly I'm away

If you haven't got some already, I do have some car ramps to jack the car onto that you are welcome to borrow...

Good luck!

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:45 pm

Vanny could you please report back what tools an kunifer pipes you found - and their pricetags ?

Over here these items are as hens teeth, with matching pricetags.
Got to be beyond silly p&p cost before its not worth importing from UK.

Vanny · Post by **Vanny** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:32 am

Anders, so far there are three tools that i know of

1) pleides compact
http://www.pleiades.uk.com/products_3.html
small ahnd held unit, bit fidly but can get into some brilliant locations for patching on the car.
From and Email in 2003;

Type A flaring tool costs £45, and is available in either 3.5 or 4.5mm.

2) pleides universal
http://www.pleiades.uk.com/products_3.html
big unit that is mounted in a vice and does nearly all the work at the swing of a lever
from an email in 2003;

Type D flaring tools is £93.80, the split die and punch sets are available
in 3.5,4.5 and 6.35mm costing £23 each.

3) this tool i'm not too sure about operation, but its a name that has popped up many times, apparently MC Lockwoods can supply a tool (01274 640 590) going to call them (and Pleiades tomorrow)

Theres also a Type D pleiades tool on ebay with all the bits, but there seems to be some strong bidding (i've been the highest bidder, but i can see it getting expensive!).

As for the piping etc the rest of the email from 2003 is as follows;

3.5mm pipe is £1.30 per metre,
4.5mm pipe is £1.50 per metre
6.35mm pipeis £2.50 per metre.
3.5 and 4.5mm male fittings cost 30p each,
6.35mm male fittings cost 40p each
3.5 and 4.5mm female couplings cost 70p each
and are not available in 6.35mm.
3.5mm LHM seals are 15p each,
4.5mm LHM seals are 20p each
6.35mm LHM seals are 25p each.

Obviously these prices are 5 years old, but i hope they havent changed too much! I'll update this tomorrow!

Oh GSF also seem to have stopped supplying unions, pipe and large LHM containers! But i'll call and see if they have any left!

Service.Citroen seems to be down so i can't check the pipe price, but i think i've just been suitably put off!

Oh this will be fun

Jonathan, i'm meant to be competing in a big canoe polo competition this weekend, so i wont be here either, but i need to sort my own transport and REALLY dont want to go in the Corsa, so might have to see about a weekend long test drive from Citroen!! We will see! I do have an R-reg fiesta, a diesel Corsa and possibly a diesel AX to borrow, but a C-Crosser would be more fun (especially given the fuel is paid for!)

Post by **docchevron** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:43 am

If you're going to re-pipe a car there is no point at all using plastic covered mild steel rubbish.
I have no idea why anybody bothers with steel pipes at all, given that kunifer pipe and stainless unions are easy to get, cheap enough, last forever and kunifer is alot more "workable" than steel.

Cant see any reason at all why Jazz isn't good for another 15 years TBH, I have no intention of binning either of my cars and intend to continue using them untill fossil fuels run out, or the average car driver is proced off the road.

All this spurious talk that "buying a later BX because it has plastic coated pipes is FTW" is all a bit rubbish really. They still corrode and fail. Kunifer doesn't.

Vanny · Post by **Vanny** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:56 am

The man from Pleiades, he say Yes! (acutually he said a lot of 'no but),

Type A tool (3.5mm and 4.5mm) £56+VAT but they have NONE they are in production but might take a while!

Type D tool - no longer stocked as amazingly they didn't make more than about £5 profit per item and where a swine to get hold of!

3.5mm pipe (rolls are 25m) £1.60 a metre
4.5mm pipr (rolls are 15m) £1.90 a metre

3.5mm and 4.5mm male fittings 35p each
3.5mm rubber seals 15p
4.5mm rubber seals 20p

They've had someone in last week who has practically wiped out there stock so availability at the moment is sketchy at best! But i've put a large order in for me, might as well stock pile a little!

Vanny · Post by **Vanny** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:08 am

Additionally, the local GSF has managed to find a 20 litre drum of LHM in Birmingham and is ordering it up for tomorrow, going to work out as £3.55 a litre which is mildly better than £4 but its also a lot more convenient!

wonder if i can get it anywhere else (i will only use Total LHM mind, i am aware that Morrisons oil is easy to get hold of and cheaper!)

EDIT if anyone is desperate 20l drums are being offered here;
http://www.citispares.co.uk/PartsSearch ... il+Filters

but its £92 a go (or £4.60 a litre) before postage

Typically the 'LHM' man at the Citroen shows sells LHM for around £3.67 a litre so if you can wait it might be better of waiting for the CCC show season!

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:38 am

This is the tool, prices at Nov 1996

RichardW · Post by **RichardW** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:23 pm

Cit specialist down the road from me had one of those pull the handle types - he made up new rear brake pipes for me for a Xantia - it worked extremely well and quickly, if I was considering buying one, I would splash the cash for one of those, rather than fiddle around with one of the screw on types (unless you wanted to do on-car work).

Just don't forget to fit the unions to the pipe BEFORE pulling the swage

Oh, and cheap LHM: Morris LHM

(Stolen from FrenchCarForum)

c90cassette · Post by **c90cassette** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:31 pm

hi vanny the was guy on ebay making pipes from kunifer and post same day think in scotlad prices seemed ok not kept his fone no but someone here must know him?do you know a guy called alistair big guy lives on east lancs road past leigh turnoff?mate said he has over 20 bxs there!he also has yard near canal and must have over 20 bxs there and xantias too .good luck rob.

Vanny · Post by **Vanny** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:53 pm

Thats the one, Morris! not Morrisons. Its much thinner than TOTAL LHM+ (so comes out faster??) and so far i haven't been able to get and technical specifications for the Morris oil, i've also noticed how much Morris them selves are selling it for;

http://www.morrislubricantsonline.co.uk ... roduc.html

£11.59 a litre! i REALLY hope that is a typo

I know they also do it in 20litre drums but it isn't listed on the website.

Rob, no ive not heard about the guy before, though heard rumours about a load of 'old citroens' down by the canal in that sort of area, suspect they must have been weighed in by now (given scrap prices and all).

Richard, re fitting the union before flaring, thats one of those mistake i make EVERY time

you'd think by now i'd learn, usually by extra connectors while i'm at it.