PAS one step closer

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Kitch
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PAS one step closer

Post by Kitch » Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:52 pm

Having spent stressful time under the valver again, I've been trouble shooting with the aid of the Doc. to try and rectify the worst PAS issue in the world ever to have encountered a BX!

There was fluid at the ram, allbeit a dribble as I couldn't get the pipe out with the engine running.

I removed the ram from the rack, but left it plumbed in and fired it up, then tried steering. No movement from ram.

I then removed the feed pipe from the FDV to the pinion valve and fired it up, expecting LHM to piss out at extremely high pressue. it did piss out, but not at high pressue. This leads us to believe the FDV is faulty.

"But I've already changed the FDV?" I hear you ask! "Twice!"

Well....heres our theory.

Jun '04 - Nov '04: PAS works fine, except for brief moments of deadness after breakin very hard. (Sounds like weak pump/accm sphere, but I did not check this)

Dec ' 04: I put hydraflush in system to try and clean it out and rectify PAS fading occasionally.

Late Dec '04: PAS dies one night completely out of the blue.

Jan '04: I blow up engine. Car comes off the road.

Now at this point, most assume the FDV has now failed. When I removed, repaired and refitted engine, I changed FDV for known good one, along with pump thinking this must solve issue.

Now what we actually think may have happened, is that the hydraflush picked up all the shite in the system and started moving it around, until it got to the pinion valve and blocked it, hence why it didn't fail turning one particular way like most PV's.
This blocked pinion valve caused a build up of pressure, which in turn forced against this ball bearing thing in the FDV and caused it to fail. Hence why I had no join when fitting another FDV....it just broke that too!


Feb' 08: I remove engine, replace rack, PV and ram with brand new units. Still, no PAS (except for a very brief moment when restarting when it came back for around 10secs at around 30% effieciency.

Of course....this will do nothing, because the FDV is still stuffed.


So......we are now thinking that a fresh FDV should give it some chance of working once more, as the PV is now good to go. Doc's coming down tomorrow and we're going to attack it.

If it doesn't work......well, erm.....if the FDV is supposed to piss fluid out at pressure and it doesn't, yet it's a good FDV and the pipes go into it correctly....do I burn it?

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docchevron
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Post by docchevron » Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:33 pm

And one step back!

I have ONE and only one FDV left.....
Not that you'd want it, it's pissing fluid out everywhere.

So tomorrow could be a no go I'm afraid mate, although I do have a couple of dudes local to me on the scrounge first thing in the morning.

If they turn anything up I'll be down.
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Post by Kitch » Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:58 pm

Ok mate, well I've ordered one from Pleiades which should arrive tomorrow, so fingers crossed!

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Post by Kitch » Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:21 pm

PAS WORKS!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D

For the first time in 3.5 years my BX has PAS!! New FDV did the trick, so it looks like the theory held water. Steering worked faultlessly, only small worry was the amount of hissing going on down by the FDV and the ticking....the tick time was quite long, but the tick kept going until I blipped the throttle or turned the steering. It's a little bit low on LHM, but it did the same thing on low with plenty in the tank.

It also ran out of electricity so its sat outside with the charger on at the mo, but overall a right old result! next step is a replacement head, fit the exhaust, get the tracking done and give her a polish (first in over a year!)

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Post by docchevron » Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:29 am

As mentioned in another thread.
God I'm good!
Another telephone fix!

I astound myself with just how great I am.


Well done dude!
Proper hardcore result, so much so I am celebrating by downing rather alot of beer!

So, it's just a CV boot and a bit of tinkering and an Mot!

I trust the old girl will be at Stratford?
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Post by Tim Leech » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:46 am

Well done Kitch, and it happened on your Birthday too? :D

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Kitch
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Post by Kitch » Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:42 pm

She has MOT 8)

The CV boot is the wrong type, but I bodged it on anyway! Got everything else sorted and it passed the (strict!) retest today.

Only issue now is that it still seems to be constanting hissing around the FDV area. The fluid is a tad low so that obviously got to be tried first, but I'm not sure it'll fix it to be honest! Any ideas?

Also got to get the tracking sorted. I'm worried it's toeing in alot but has reached the end of its adjustment so can't be corrected, but obviously until it's been properly looked at I won't know for sure.

Any good places to go to with a BX for tracking dooone sooouf?

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Post by Way2go » Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:38 pm

Kitch wrote:She has MOT 8)
Good work! :D

Kitch wrote: Only issue now is that it still seems to be constanting hissing around the FDV area. The fluid is a tad low so that obviously got to be tried first, but I'm not sure it'll fix it to be honest! Any ideas?
Isn't this where there is the suggestion that the ballbearing needs reseating in the first instance? Failing that it presumably is pump output pressure low on tick-over but I actually think that most hiss a bit until the rpm lift. :?
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Post by tom » Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:32 pm

Tracking: Top of this forum?

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Post by docchevron » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:53 am

Ah, not quite Tom.
There's a bit of an issue with this car.
The new rack is a bit, er, odd!
Even with the track rods wound in on the axial joints as far as they will go it still toes in.
It's definitley a BX rack, so I can only assume it's got the wrong TRE's or wierd Axial joints!


Bloody well done though Kitch!
Right result.
So the matches and petrol are on standby now then?!! :lol:
I trust the beast will make an appearance at Stratford?
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Post by Aerodynamica » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:07 pm

Well done on a good fix there.

The hissing sound is normal. Everyone seems to think it's a fault!! I can assure you it's what they did when brand new.

There was a guy on FCF ages ago with a Mk1 Xantia that was perfect in every way except for this continual hissing and that if he couldn't 'fix' it he was seriously thinking about getting rid of the otherwise very good motor...

I first noticed the hissing sound when the Xantia was first launched, 3 years later we had a Xantia, the hissing became less frequent and steering became twitchy at standstill, hissing vanished and steering became heavier and 'notchy' - replaced accumulator sphere, and suddenly it was hissing again and all else returned to normal.

It's a sound that I recalled also from being shown a new BX back in the 80s when I was 6-7, I just recall the front suddenly rising up and this characteristic hsssssss-tick sound. I think it's something to do with the pressure dumped through the FDV at a moment where th steering is not being moved and some sort of pressure exchange in the FDV occurs.

Shame you find it worrying - I always thought it was kinda cool..
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Post by Vanny » Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:23 pm

i've had hissing like that, noisey all the time unless turning the rack or accelerting/increasing engine revs. Problem was leak past in the recently replaced pinion valve seals as a result of increased pump pressure. Changed the pump, less pressure, no hiss. But i might add for the whole time it did this i had no problems with the PAS.

Check to see if there is a LOT of LHM returning to the reservoir from the PAS!

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Post by Kitch » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:54 pm

Way2go: Not sure I totally follow the ball idea....its a new FDV. I didn't refit the jammed one, or have I misread you?

Tom: See Doc's reply, but I'd also trust anyone else rather than something I'd made! For a kickoff I don't have steel wheels, so the magnet's out! Blue a possibility, but I think I'd rather give someone some money. I'm more concerned by my lack of adjustment. I can myself having to cut the track rod ends down, and tap more thread onto the tie rod!


Doc: Matches and petrol are in reserve. It's 100 times nicer to drive, although it still has it's gremlins. The ABS lamp came on on it's first run this evening, but possibly due to the amount of grease and crap around the new CV boot which proved a very mucky job. I can live with an ABS light, aslong as the boot hasn't slipped off!
Stratford is very much a possibility. Only thing that will stop it is a lack of cash, or if it breaks in the meantime!

Aero: The hissing doesn't bother me, aslong as it's not a sign that something's wrong. My dad's 19GT did a similar thing until the accm sphere was changed IIRC. I did think about the pump, but everything else works fine. I'd much rather have the noise than no PAS!

Vanny: Exactly the same symptoms, but the pinion valve was a complete new unit. I may try another pump but if it continues to work fine then I might leave it. But I'll check the return like you say.

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Post by Way2go » Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:40 am

Kitch wrote:Way2go: Not sure I totally follow the ball idea....its a new FDV. I didn't refit the jammed one, or have I misread you?
Hi Kitch, I think so. This is not something I have had to do myself but remembered it from one of Jeremy's postings way back. So have copied and pasted for you just in case it is relevant:
jeremy wrote:I wonder - 2 possibilities

1. Air in the LHM due to a leak on the inlet side of the pump - look in the reservoir with the engine running and see if there is any evidence. - green milky LHM.

2. leaky non-return valve in the accumulator? Turn car off and sit in the boot - car drops and by the time it should rise (which would be about a minute or so) - the pressure has leaked away from the accumulator?

Hissing/ticking should be longer than 20 seconds - nearer a minute. Non return valve is under the accumulator sphere - remove sphere, remove plate and bolt (10mm head?) from accumulator face on regulator. collect ball bearing (which will probably fall in your face). Stick ball back in hole with a dab of grease and strike it ONCE smartly with a BRASS punch, reassemble.

I have done this job on my TD with the regulator on the car from underneath. You must use a brass punch - a steel one will put a flat on the ball. Similarily you must only tap it once - this creats a seat - do it more than once - you create one each blow which will not be concentric and the consequent mess will leak!

Nice effective cure - and its FREE!
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Post by tom » Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:05 pm

You haven't got 'em swapped left for right, have you? Or maybe a mix of Mk1 and mark 2 parts. Check Russek, there is something in the back of my mind which explains this. I suspect that the rods are on the wrong sides.