Yet another problem

Tourist · Post by **Tourist** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:06 pm

Before I can get to the bottom of one problem another has popped up, the bl**dy car won't start, and I'm aware that I haven't had it running for a few days now because of the snow but this takes the p*ss.

I turn the key, wait for the "pre-heating" and turn the starter motor. The power from the battery seems low, the starter motor struggles to turn.

The strange thing is that after a few turns, the engine seems to stop trying altogether, leaving the starter motor freely turning on its own.

Before I go out and try changing the battery in the freezing rain, who knows what the bl**dy hell this is about?

I'd think the powers that be would atleast let me get the car to a bl**dy garage!

Post by **docchevron** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:54 pm

Sounds like the battery's had it to me.

Is it a sealed for life, or does it have little caps on the top through which you can top it up?

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:55 pm

Given the problems you have already highlighted don't stop you delivering to a workshop, this is a real bummer.

Wait to see what others on this forum advise, but I would suggest the starter motor might be at fault. But top candidate has to be the battery... it might be fubar, does it look new or tired? Is it a sealed one with a date on it?

DLM · Post by **DLM** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:02 pm

I'm no expert on starters, but unless I'm very much mistaken, your starter solenoid isn't doing what it should. The solenoid operates to make the characteristic click sound as you turn the starter key.

If your battery were flat - then that click would be all you'd hear and the engine would barely turn over, if at all.

The solenoid engages the starter motor with the flywheel, so that it turns the engine over. When you turn the key back fom starting position, the motor is disengaged from the flywheel. If the starter isn't engaging with the flywheel then the starter motor is free to turn.

Post by **docchevron** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:08 pm

Well, yes and no. It rather depends whether it has a bendix or pre-engage starter.
It should be a pre-engage motor, but alot haven't got pre-eengage anymore.

A dead battery can cause the starter to engage, but as the engine goes over on compression on one pot the engine can accelerate past motor speed thus disengaging the motor causing it to spin.
It's a bit like whenthe engine starts and you're a bit slow letting go of the key, that noise it makes as the motor over spins and then spins down is what our Tourist could be describing.

Of course, it could be the starter that carcked it, or the trigger lead, but given it;s been arked up for a bit, and I understand the car had stood for a while vefore that, and the cold weather, it'd start with the battery.

DLM · Post by **DLM** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:13 pm

I'm sure you've been down'n'dirty with a lot more starters than I have, doc ..... so I'll gladly bow to your superior knowledge and experience.

Tourist · Post by **Tourist** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:41 pm

Battery looks new-ish but it does have caps that you can unscrew by the looks of it. I would change the battery to test it now but it's raining and freezing cold.

I'll try and phone mr. silver slipper joker tomorrow, once I have a better idea of what's wrong with the car.

If I get a chance tonight, I'll go and change the battery over, I have another that I can use

so that's something positive atleast, if it is the battery at fault.

docchevron1472 wrote:It's a bit like whenthe engine starts and you're a bit slow letting go of the key, that noise it makes as the motor over spins and then spins down is what our Tourist could be describing.

Yes it's this sound, the starter motor spinning.

RxBX · Post by **RxBX** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:55 pm

Hi, Tourist.
If after changing the battery does not resolve your starting problems

Check to see if you have a GOOD connection to the injection pump FSV (fuel shut-off valve), this connection is prone failing/breaking (Its best to solder the wire to the little 'Banjo' shaped connector for good continuity) if this fails there is NO power to energize the Solenoid within the FSV and therefore basically the fuel delivery is shut off and the engine will NOT start.
Also the FSV on the injector pump can fail (Lucas pumps seem to be more prone to this problem than the Bosch units from my experience) to check this (Without removing the FSV) remove the little nut from the top FSV and then with the ignition on remove the 'Banjo' connector from FSV and then just touch the thread end connection on/off a few times & listen for a 'Click' from the FSV, if you can it should be okay if NOT the FSV will need replacing. If your happy with that and alls okay move onto the glow plugs by removing them all and checking their performance/condition, unless you already changed them recently.
But that's NOT always a good guarantee to think each individual glow-plug is performing as it should !

Don't get fooled by thinking there new or nearly new and's all's OKAY

As I found out one occasion, I was having starting problems so i went off to HALFORDS for a new set of Glow-plugs I replaced them and everything was great for approx. two weeks then after the third week starting the car up got more difficult and the after approx. 4-5 weeks the car would NOT start up at all, I just ended up flatting a good fully charged battery

So I decided to remove all the glow-plugs and three out of the four were completely dead,

I took them ALL back and got a FREE replacement set put them in and all was well so there you have it !

WARNING PLEASE NOTE

A very quick and simple way if you don't have an AVO meter to check the condition/performance of your glow-plugs.
The following method of doing this check MUST be done outside or in a garage with NO combustible material of Inflammable liquids about , also I suggest you use a pair of leather work gloves as glow-plugs get EXTREMELY HOT and STAY HOT for a considerable time (If there working properly)
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES DO THIS INSIDE YOUR HOME (For obvious reasons)

By using a good fully charge 12 volt car battery and with one end of a jump lead croc. clip to the + terminal on the battery and then carefully connect the other end of the jump lead to the same connection as the fly-lead connector connects to on the ends each glow-plug when fitted into the cylinder head.

Then BE VERY CAREFUL with the next step, touch the body of the glow-plug to the - terminal of the battery to see its it glows up quickly 5 to 12 seconds say, if the tip of the glow-plug isn't glowing up and is apparently cold replace that one with a new one

Likewise if your just getting a slight glow in the middle portion/shaft of the glow-plug or just a slight glow on the tip replace it with a new one.
Glow-plugs MUST glow up fairly quickly and produce a white/yellow glow from the tip to a faded orange half way up the glow-plug tip/shaft to ensure good starting characteristics

Also check this thread out for more possible problems or checks you may have to carry-out to resolve your starting problems:-
http://www.bxclub.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9948
and also:- http://bxclub.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4207

Cheer's and best of luck .

Tourist · Post by **Tourist** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:42 pm

Update: car starts after running, indicating that it is the battery at fault. It's still not always first-time but it starts.