Black BX 19 GT MK1 FOR SALE

Buy or sell parts etc. Please put 'Wanted' in the title if it is a request for parts.
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cavmad
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Post by cavmad »

So he was a member after all then?
Vauxhall apologist.
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Tim Leech
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Post by Tim Leech »

Yes he was a while back not anymore I dont think.
Lots of Motors, mostly semi broken....
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Post by Mike Holdstock »

Sounds like you guys reckon black GTs are pretty rare. I've got a black 88 Gti 8v with about 20t kilometer and a lot of rusty fore-aft hydraulic piping and a diffy (but otherwise functional) gearbox.
I was thinking of stripping the innards and moving these to the red 14RE (RE accomodation is not the most comfortable, but from what you are saying I am wondering if I shoudn't save up a few pennies and try again.
There is some exterior rust and the left front wing has been deformed when the wheel fell off (as a result of some local hoodies tampering) but otherwise nothing exceptional.
I know you all think allowing ANY BX to moulder is a sin punishable by death, but what are your feelings about this situation.
OR I can buy this 1990 valver (with failed MOT as aresult of rear hydraulic pipes and hand brake only operating on one side, 190000km or therabouts)
http://www.blocket.se/stockholm/Citroen ... m?ca=7&w=3
for about £420 in Stockholm.
(another black one :o )

Thoughts? Any special known problems with 1990 16 valves?

Mike
OWNS a BX19i 1990 tri with only 110k km on the clock and no rust
OWNS a life-threatened BX16i and delighted with it (but poor relationship with test station)
HAS HAD 89 BX14iRE (dead)
HAS HAD 88 BX19GtI (dead)
HAD 89 BX14RE which was still motoring very well at 280.000km when there was too much rust (gone)
HAD about 5 GS (first 1978) in the 70's, 80's and 90's, loved them, would dearly have one again.
HAD a DS Break - Succumbed to the rust of ages..
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Post by Tim Leech »

A Mk1 GT and a MK2 GTi are quite different cars Mike, the GT was only made for one year and wasnt a big seller so getting rare now.

I have a 1990 Valver and this biggest problem is rust, inner wings, boot floors, A posts etc.
Lots of Motors, mostly semi broken....
Mike Holdstock
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Post by Mike Holdstock »

Thanks Roverman
"...biggest problem is rust, inner wings, boot floors, A posts etc...."
so the normal things to look for which I know how to look for., but what exactly do you mean by inner wings? Do you mean the seam left hand front a bit ahead of the battery, the whole of that seam (and presumably on the right side too?

I think I will poodle down to Stockholm and check this out. I've been texting with the current owner who tells me that it is still running and both the rear pipes and the handbrake are "have to be fixed by the end of the month" (and are functioning) items on the MOT, not "get it off the road now" stuff.
Only other item was slightly wavering exhaust emission values, MOT guy suggested timing - and I know that my GTi quite often had the orange K light on, intermittantly and for no apparent reason (other than that it really DOESN'T like ethanol).

I understand the special interest in the Mk1 GT, and why they are different.

But the black BXs ARE special!

Thanks in advance for anything on "inner wings".

Mike
OWNS a BX19i 1990 tri with only 110k km on the clock and no rust
OWNS a life-threatened BX16i and delighted with it (but poor relationship with test station)
HAS HAD 89 BX14iRE (dead)
HAS HAD 88 BX19GtI (dead)
HAD 89 BX14RE which was still motoring very well at 280.000km when there was too much rust (gone)
HAD about 5 GS (first 1978) in the 70's, 80's and 90's, loved them, would dearly have one again.
HAD a DS Break - Succumbed to the rust of ages..
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Post by MULLEY »

16v models share the exact same issues as all the other models, have a search on the site or members blogs for some ideas on what to look out for.

Something which i've noticed from club members is that the majority of them have done some work on the engine, from minor to a full re-build. I dont believe the engines are necessarily weak, but most of them will have been caned which i guess means engine wear & tear. Please correct me if i'm wrong valver owners.

The 8v Gti appears to be less problematic in the engine dept, so unless you dead set on a valver, & there's absolutely no harm in doing so :D i'd stick with our current car & get that upto scratch as they are still a very nice drive & certainly quick enough. They are also a bit more relaxing to drive than valvers as the torque (admittedly slightly less than a valver) comes in lower down the rev range, so there is less need to cane the car to get it shifting at a reasonable rate of knots.

I've got an 8v & it's a really nice drive, i'm sure the 16v is more fun, but i cant be arsed to be reving it to 7k to extract all the performance, well not until i get one of course & then i may change my tune :lol:

Or, get a valver & keep your 8v as the daily driver :D
2002 C5 2.0 HDI Estate - Jasmine - Now SORN
2011 Mini Cooper D Clubman - SOLD
2016 Mercedes A180D Sport - Auto refinement
1992 TZD Turbo - Bluebell - My daily
1991 Gti 16V - Blaze - crash damaged, will get repaired.
1990 Gti 8Valve SOLD - looks like it's been scrapped
2002 Mini Cooper S - SOLD - i miss this car
1992 TXD - Scrapped in March 2014
1988 CX 25 GTI Turbo2 - SORN
1996 - AX Memphis 1.5D - Dream - SORN

I'm not just a username, i'm also called Matthew.
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Matt H
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Post by Matt H »

You have no idea how much I want a black 16v like that... it is just killing me :lol:
Mike Holdstock
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Post by Mike Holdstock »

Matt
Ryan to Stockholm..... :wink: ... drive home through Denmark....

Mike
OWNS a BX19i 1990 tri with only 110k km on the clock and no rust
OWNS a life-threatened BX16i and delighted with it (but poor relationship with test station)
HAS HAD 89 BX14iRE (dead)
HAS HAD 88 BX19GtI (dead)
HAD 89 BX14RE which was still motoring very well at 280.000km when there was too much rust (gone)
HAD about 5 GS (first 1978) in the 70's, 80's and 90's, loved them, would dearly have one again.
HAD a DS Break - Succumbed to the rust of ages..
Mike Holdstock
Confirmed BX'er
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:12 pm
Location: Karlstad, Sweden

Post by Mike Holdstock »

Mulley

Thanks for the considered advice.

I have wondered a bit about this business of the 19s generally having been thrashed, wondering if they haven't attracted a special type pf clientell....

Don't know much about torque and so on - but I have done nearly a 1000 km this week in the 14RE and am still amazed by the fact that I can shove it into 5th at 50km/h and then given a bit of time it'll wind itself all the way up to about 150 in the same gear (30 to 90 mph to Brits). Really plucky motor - and mine still giving me >600km from the 42 liter tank - which is pretty Ok (but not at 150 :o ).

Maybe I can have all three? 14 for Mum to go tot he shopping centre, working valver to use and the 8v to restore.

No harm in looking.

In all seriousness - thanks for your mellow and considered advice.

Mike

Ps - why do you reckon (if its true) that the majority of the remaining BXs in UK seem to be diesels? (which someone has written on the forum). Ds are in the minority for sale now in Sweden.
OWNS a BX19i 1990 tri with only 110k km on the clock and no rust
OWNS a life-threatened BX16i and delighted with it (but poor relationship with test station)
HAS HAD 89 BX14iRE (dead)
HAS HAD 88 BX19GtI (dead)
HAD 89 BX14RE which was still motoring very well at 280.000km when there was too much rust (gone)
HAD about 5 GS (first 1978) in the 70's, 80's and 90's, loved them, would dearly have one again.
HAD a DS Break - Succumbed to the rust of ages..
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Matt H
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Post by Matt H »

MULLEY wrote:16v models share the exact same issues as all the other models, have a search on the site or members blogs for some ideas on what to look out for.

Something which i've noticed from club members is that the majority of them have done some work on the engine, from minor to a full re-build. I dont believe the engines are necessarily weak, but most of them will have been caned which i guess means engine wear & tear. Please correct me if i'm wrong valver owners.

The 8v Gti appears to be less problematic in the engine dept, so unless you dead set on a valver, & there's absolutely no harm in doing so :D i'd stick with our current car & get that upto scratch as they are still a very nice drive & certainly quick enough. They are also a bit more relaxing to drive than valvers as the torque (admittedly slightly less than a valver) comes in lower down the rev range, so there is less need to cane the car to get it shifting at a reasonable rate of knots.

I've got an 8v & it's a really nice drive, i'm sure the 16v is more fun, but i cant be arsed to be reving it to 7k to extract all the performance, well not until i get one of course & then i may change my tune :lol:

Or, get a valver & keep your 8v as the daily driver :D
Well, I was going to say that strongest thing about a 16v was the engine... although they do need to be looked after.

Oh... And mine doesn't stop pulling until about 7200RPM :wink:

Get a 16v! You know it makes sense :lol:
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Post by Vanny »

valvers need looking after like any other engine, the difference with a valver is that you'll notice its going off peak sooner because a) they have a lot of peak to loose b)they let you know. Its got nothing to do with them only being driven on full chat, infact IMHO they perform better that way, a sat valver will always be slow and lumpy untill its hit the limiter a few times.

The thing about the valver is that they require a little more care, they need regular servicing unlike most of the BX range which can be put off for quite a while. The typical owner won't carry out the meticulous care they require, and hence the problems start!

Since i've had the Mi back in the BX its done around 10,000, had two oil changes, been round three race tracks and competed in an autosolo. No problems to mention. It has also had three emisions tests (not including those for MOT) and has been clean everytime. Infact i might go so far as saying it has been as reliable as a diesel. Its just been looked after!

The difference with the GTi is that it requires a lot less love, so gives the appearance that it is more reliable. Though to be honest i've never seen the point of the GTi. The TD is just as nippy and gives better miles, so why not have that instead?
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Post by MULLEY »

I must admit, i never found my td anywhere as quick as my gti, perhaps it was duff & that explains the knackerd cam & head :lol:

For A 2 B driving, i'd agree with vanny, there's not a lot of difference, but when you want to get a shift on the gti leaves a td for dead imho, so perhpes i've got a good gti & a rubbish td?

You'd have to try a td to compare against your gti. To be fair, i've managed 36mpg in my gti, so it not too bad on fuel, but i must admit i do boot it more than any of my other cars & so the fuel does dissapear faster than the diesels.
2002 C5 2.0 HDI Estate - Jasmine - Now SORN
2011 Mini Cooper D Clubman - SOLD
2016 Mercedes A180D Sport - Auto refinement
1992 TZD Turbo - Bluebell - My daily
1991 Gti 16V - Blaze - crash damaged, will get repaired.
1990 Gti 8Valve SOLD - looks like it's been scrapped
2002 Mini Cooper S - SOLD - i miss this car
1992 TXD - Scrapped in March 2014
1988 CX 25 GTI Turbo2 - SORN
1996 - AX Memphis 1.5D - Dream - SORN

I'm not just a username, i'm also called Matthew.
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Post by docchevron »

hhmm.
well, the TD throws you along on a wave of torque.

the GTi throws you along on a fairly narrow power band.

There's a massive difference between torque and power.

My TD will murder a GTi 8V all day, but it aint stock.
That said, I had TD and GTi hurricane's, and there really wasn't anything between them at all.

I still can't work out why this myth about valvers having less torque still remains.

Ok, actually it's kinda down to how the engines setup, and what pulleys are used, but the 8V lump just isn't a match, at any point in the rev range for a 16V lump.

The 16V is in a whole different league.

The bottom ends are bullet proof unless you get the oil surge issue.. Easily sorted by checking the oil and having a baffled sump

The top ends are far from fragile and they are capable of huge mileages.

Yes they need looking after, but frankly no more than any other engine does if you want it to last.

Yes, valvers thrive on revs, but you dont have to scream the nuts off them to get them to shift, again, its all in how they are set up, and to a certain extent, the person that sets them up.

For out and out fun, the valver pisses over any other BX all day long.
Smokes lots, because enough's enough already!

Far too many BX's, a bus, an ambulance a few trucks, not enough time and never enough cash...
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2002 C5 2.0 HDI (110) Estate - Jasmine - SORN
2011 Mini Cooper D Clubman - SOLD
2016 Mercedes A180D Sport - Auto refinement
1992 TZD Turbo - Bluebell - SORN
1992 TZD Turbo Estate - SORN
1991 Gti 16V - Blaze - crash damaged, will get repaired - SORN
1990 Gti 8Valve SOLD - looks like it's been scrapped
2002 Mini Cooper S - SOLD - i miss this car
1992 TXD - Scrapped in March 2014
1988 CX 25 GTI Turbo2 - SORN
1996 - AX Memphis 1.5D - Dream - SORN
x 8

Post by MULLEY »

I need to borrow someones decent td as i dont believe it can keep up with my Gti. Not sure what you mean by a narrow power band on the gti? It can rev easily upto the redline whilst the td runs out at about 4.5k. There is a 35bhp difference to a stock td to a Gti, & in a lightweight car thats a massive difference.

Your'e right doc, there is a misconception that the 8v has more torque than a valver, you quite correctly pointed out it doesnt, the difference between them isnt that much & in the valver it comes in much higher up the rev range than the 8v.

I think the 8v gets a bit of a dis-service, td's are much more fuel efficient, but once you get into 4th gear performance is leisurely in td whilst in the 8v its still going strong. The gti also feels a lot more nimble to drive for some reason, is the diesel lump quite heavy in comparison?
2002 C5 2.0 HDI Estate - Jasmine - Now SORN
2011 Mini Cooper D Clubman - SOLD
2016 Mercedes A180D Sport - Auto refinement
1992 TZD Turbo - Bluebell - My daily
1991 Gti 16V - Blaze - crash damaged, will get repaired.
1990 Gti 8Valve SOLD - looks like it's been scrapped
2002 Mini Cooper S - SOLD - i miss this car
1992 TXD - Scrapped in March 2014
1988 CX 25 GTI Turbo2 - SORN
1996 - AX Memphis 1.5D - Dream - SORN

I'm not just a username, i'm also called Matthew.
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Post by jonathan_dyane »

My previous TZD Turbo ended up with a XUD9TE pump after the original pump croaked, which had a rather beneficial effect on fuelling, and it showed lots of petrol cars a clean set of heels, particularly uphill. I well remember overtaking a pissed-off Golf GTI driver on an uphill stretch of the M62 who tore past me when we reached the summit and I backed off.

It smoked well too :D
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