Ignition Amp for 16v

Mike E (uk) · Post by **Mike E (uk)** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:20 pm

I do not think there is an inherant design fault with the ignition 'amp' ( it is actually a switch) on the BX16V.

I agree it would be better if it was in the cabin, not under the bonnet.

But the (pre 1990) GTI 8V has the amp 'heatsunk' to the distributor on the engine, and these still last a reasonably long time, but do fail. I think this is poor design.

The 16V has the 'amp' on a heatsink which is going to be a lot cooler.
I agree it has to work harder with the higher spark rate at higher rpm, but in practice this is only 10% or so higher than on a GTI driven hard, when the car is moving fast with lots of air passing through.

At idle in traffic , the 16V amp is probably cooler because it has a better heatsink.

I think the critical factor is the quality of the thermal path between the amp and the metal plate.

If you are really worried, put fins on the plate and move it to behind the grill.

An easier solution is keep a spare one in the glove box, then you probably wont need it.

Has anyone on here put distributerless ignition on a 16V?

It is fitted on the late 8V GTI and on XMs, and would do away with the expensive rotor arms and caps.

Thats what I want on my car.

Mike

electrokid · Post by **electrokid** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:01 pm

Has Matt H actually got a Bosch amp yet ?

Post by **docchevron** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:35 pm

Mike E (uk) wrote:Has anyone on here put distributerless ignition on a 16V?

I believe it has been done, but can't remember who by now..
I'm sure there's something about it on BX16valve?

Mike E (uk) · Post by **Mike E (uk)** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:58 pm

Dan Bs cousin, who used to live near me, had it on his 16V.

this car had carbs on it too, and looked like the ign system on the xm.

The car had had the ignition mod done by a previous owner IIRC, so it can be done.

Not seen him for a while though, but if I could spend an hour looking at the car, I could suss out the conversion and tell all how it is done.

The alternative is studying the circuits for the two cars, but it would be nice to see a working example before taking my (working) car apart.

Must be the way to go, don't you think Doc?

Mike

Post by **docchevron** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:12 am

Sounds like a plan. I have a spare engine, so I could have a play with that on a test rig..
I've never had any real issues with the standard setup really, but it would be nice to do away with the dizzy cap...

electrokid · Post by **electrokid** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:23 am

If the Pug part is the same then...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/205-gti-MI16-1600 ... 4aa2a9e4fc

prm · Post by **prm** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:27 am

This might give you a few pointers?

http://www.mi16conversion.co.uk/mi16-co ... -start.htm

I've heard of it being carried out with Alfa's.

Pug boys maybe able to help.

Regards

Mike E (uk) · Post by **Mike E (uk)** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:50 am

The 205 boys appear to use the existing system which they strip from the donor car.

After all it does work.

Mike

prm · Post by **prm** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:32 pm

Sorry Mike, will put my glasses on next time

That was certainly a fine link for the BX site.

Regards

Adrian E · Post by **Adrian E** » Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:59 pm

Mike E (uk) wrote:Dan Bs cousin, who used to live near me, had it on his 16V.

this car had carbs on it too, and looked like the ign system on the xm.

The car had had the ignition mod done by a previous owner IIRC, so it can be done.

Hi Mike

Dan's cousin had mapped M3D engine management (think that's the name of the old Emerald branded engine management?) using a ZX coil pack. It's not running carbs - it's on throttle bodies, but old style ones that look like a pair of Weber DCOEs!

The work was carried out for him by Pete Sparrow from PTS Developments at a time when mapped ignition and replacement engine management was still effing expensive to do! Seem to remember Pete did the labour FOC because he was interested in it, but the bill for parts still ran into the thousands. From memory would've been 1999/2000 ish.

I was working round the corner from PTS at the time so remember this being done over a period of many weeks!

I'm not sure if Dan's cousin still has the car - I know it was out of use for a very long time, but last I heard he was thinking of getting it running again. I believe domestic arrangements were taking priority at the time!!

I think the engine itself was bog standard - not even sure it had cams done. It would've been an interesting starting point, and probably got about as far as Chris' old car that now belongs to Simran (but was sold without the engine management I believe, hence Simran going down the bike carbs route). I seem to remember it didn't produce much in the way of gains (mind you Chris had a shagged bottom end on his 16V) maybe about 10BHP with some improved driveability.

It would've worked best with some lairy cams I suspect - the engine management would allow it to remain driveable bottom end whilst producing the power top end.

I would think the ZX coil pack based approach would be possible so long as appropriate signals that the original 16V ECU recognises can be generated? I'm guessing it's not much different to the later iron block 2.0 16V lump used in the later Mi16 405/306 S16/Xsara VTS?