Loan Solex requested for a few weeks .......

Post by **Tim Leech** » Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:25 pm

mat_fenwick wrote:
Roverman wrote:I was told that without the manifold it wont work!
True, just plonking the carb somewhere in the engine bay is likely to lead to poor running and difficulty to start...

Seriously, it may well be that the one you have does need a different manifold whereas Bob's is just a straight swap.

haha even Im not that stupid (no comments please) if its a straight swop then i guess its a good idea.

artic-steel · Post by **artic-steel** » Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:57 pm

The GT runs really sweet with it's Solex a few carb icing problems coming down the big mountains in France but other than that it pulls very well.
I only got a spare because it was running really poorly at the time but it turned out to be nothing more than a squashed breather pipe.

Even the icing was probably my fault, it is heated via the coolant & i changed that just before leaving & didn't bleed the carb.

Linegeist · Post by **Linegeist** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:29 pm

Another hurdle - I've decided to bite the bullet and get a new Weber DRTC carb for the Athena ...... but Webcon now need to know what kind of engine I have.

Apparently the difference is in the carb's calibration as sent out and is crucial ............................

Here are the choices (in red) from the carb chart ....

Citroën BX 16 RE/RS/TGS/TRS/TZS
1580cc 1982-91
Man tr/Auto tr Auto ch 2267082800 ‡ 32/34 DRTC Solex Z1/O.E. 257.60
1580cc 1988 on
Man tr/Auto tr Auto ch 2267084100 % 32/34 DRTC Solex Z1/O.E. 286.95

‡ Citroën BX 16 Models With Engine Type 171B & 171C.
% Citroën BX 16 Models With Engine Type B2C.

All the registration document tells me is the engine number ......... and there's no tag on the Solex.

Post by **mat_fenwick** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:48 pm

Yours will be the B2C engine - the 171 refers to the earlier (pre '88 ) 'suitcase' engine.

scarecrow · Post by **scarecrow** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:54 pm

This might be a stupid question, but what's the advantage of a Weber over a Solex? They're both multi-jetted jobbies...

Linegeist · Post by **Linegeist** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:52 pm

It's an engineering thing Steve. You rarely see Solex carbs being fitted to rally prepped cars for example, and Weber retrofit kits are well known for regularly delivering better economy as well as power.

From my own perspective, I see carbs like the Solexes and Pierburgs as being over-complex devices that have developed bolt-on workarounds to address problems that, in the Webers, have been engineered out at inception.

I also used to fit Webers regularly when I was in the motor trade, and I never had a bad one, and their aftermarket backup is pretty good too. Conversely, if I had a pound for every Solex, Pierburg, Varajet et al, that I'd had problems with and about which the makers weren't interested, I'd be able to take the forum out on the lash.

I like Webers, I understand Webers and I can tune Webers. I've just had 20 years in IT and forgotten most of it.

Linegeist · Post by **Linegeist** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:53 pm

mat_fenwick wrote:Yours will be the B2C engine - the 171 refers to the earlier (pre '88) 'suitcase' engine.

Thanks Mat. Top stuff!!! $\:D/$

scarecrow · Post by **scarecrow** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:55 am

Hmmmm.... whereabouts are you getting your Weber from, Bob? I wonder if they do a conversion for a 14? I guess price will make up my mind - a Recon Solex is at most £140, if the Weber is around £300 that'll be £150 it owes me, Assuming say a 10% fuel saving, and my fuel consumption of about 15 litres a week (say £20's worth) that means it will take:

10% of £20 is £2

£150 / £2 is 75 weeks so roughly a year and a half payback - that definitely seems a reasonable investment - especially if lower maintenance costs were factored in.

scarecrow · Post by **scarecrow** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:10 am

Looking at the webcon parts list yields the Pug 205 conversion kits - I can't see why they shouldn't apply to BXs with the same engine...

Peugeot 205
....
1360cc SR 1983-88
S13590099
Solex 34 PBISA Solex O.E.
177.16
1360cc XR/SR/GR 1988 on
S13688099
Solex 34 PBISA Solex O.E.
140.20
1360cc 1990 on
1529079800
34 TLP
O.E.
202.91
1360cc 1990 on Man tr
S14212099
Solex 32/34 Z2
Solex O.E.
280.85
1580cc 1986 on Auto tr
1531079900
36 TLC
O.E.
267.25
1580cc 1994 on Man tr
S14146099
Solex 34/34 Z1
Solex O.E.
257.50

I understood mine to have the PBISA Solex (though I'm not 100%) though if that's the case am I right in thinking that the first one highlighted red in the above list is the one? Only £140 too.

Thanks

EDIT: mine's a 1991 bx 14

electrokid · Post by **electrokid** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:10 am

This might be a stupid question, but what's the advantage of a Weber over a Solex?

Hmmm - long story short. The ideal is to set the level of fuel in the carb exactly to the top of the delivery tube - airflow through the venturi creates a slight vacuum that is proportional to the flow of air - the slight vacuum draws fuel out of the top of the tube in proportion to the airflow - this amount of fuel / airflow ratio is controlled by adjusting an orifice - the 'main' jet.

Setting the fuel level to exactly the top of the delivery tube is impractical considering the engine vibration - it will spill out - so it is set just below the top of the tube - this creates an error. In the Weber this error is designed to be exactly offset by fuel flowing through a second orrifice - the 'idle' jet.

Nothing's perfect but this is reasonably close - and in the Weber the process is well implemented. Weber chose to get the fundamental process working well while other manufacturers seem to have tried to reduce errors by frigging around with extra jets and channels making them more complicated and harder to fix if they go wrong - also making it easy for one of the frigs to go wrong and reducing performance before any notion of it failing completely.

Bottom line - it's a simple and very predictable carb - if it's clean and the diaphrams are intact then it's reasonably easy to set up and very reliable and accurate.

Well well - a reasonable description without mentioning stoichiometric proportions... oops !

scarecrow · Post by **scarecrow** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:18 pm

I should have rung them up first = no longer available

scarecrow · Post by **scarecrow** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:25 pm

^ thanks for that - and I'm not averse to the odd stoichiometric description! From what I understand it's a balancing act between running lean and getting better performance/economy and higher NOx emissions, and running rich and getting poor performance/economy. less NOx but emitting more CO and carbon particulates.

I might be wrong

Linegeist · Post by **Linegeist** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:18 pm

electrokid wrote:..............other manufacturers seem to have tried to reduce errors by frigging around with extra jets and channels making them more complicated and harder to fix if they go wrong - also making it easy for one of the frigs to go wrong and reducing performance before any notion of it failing completely.

Superbly written piece of purple prose Sir! I salute you!

Linegeist · Post by **Linegeist** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:21 pm

scarecrow wrote:Hmmmm.... whereabouts are you getting your Weber from, Bob?

These folks guv':-

Webcon UK Ltd
Dolphin Road, Sunbury, Middlesex TW16 7HE
Telephone: 01932 787100
Website: http://www.webcon.co.uk
Email: sales@webcon.co.uk

The chap I'm dealing with is called "Anthony" and is one of the most helpful people I've met in a while.

HTH
Bob

Matt H · Post by **Matt H** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:54 pm

Linegeist wrote:
scarecrow wrote:Hmmmm.... whereabouts are you getting your Weber from, Bob?
These folks guv':-

Webcon UK Ltd
Dolphin Road, Sunbury, Middlesex TW16 7HE
Telephone: 01932 787100
Website: http://www.webcon.co.uk
Email: sales@webcon.co.uk

The chap I'm dealing with is called "Anthony" and is one of the most helpful people I've met in a while.

HTH
Bob

These guys are very good. My boss had his MGB track car set up on mapped ignition with them...