URGENT!!! Clutch release lever & pivot shaft! SOLVED!

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mountainmanUK

URGENT!!! Clutch release lever & pivot shaft! SOLVED!

Post by mountainmanUK » Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:05 pm

Hi folks!

I'm currently in the middle of swapping gearboxes etc. on my TXD, and all was going well, until I started swapping over the selector linkages etc. from my old box onto the new (ex-Pug 306TD) box.
The gear selector shaft went on OK, so I started on the clutch release shaft. I noticed, to my dismay, that the cotter pin/bolt thingy holding the release lever to the pivot shaft is NOT simply a rollpin, but has some kind of sheared-off, THREADED thing. At the back end of the pin is simply a rounded off end, at the other end is a tiny piece of threaded bolt sticking out only about 0.5 mm from the side of the release lever / shaft assembly!

There is absolutely NOTHING to be able to get a grip on, and I've tentatively tried drilling into the end, but hardly made a mark!

I will try to get a pic or two later, but I'm too oily and greasy to get my camera out now, after dropping the box onto my chest for removal!

What I really need, desperately, in a hurry, is a release arm and pivot shaft, capable of being separated to fit then assembled again!
I am totally carless until I can get these bits to enable me to stick the box back in! (No, I'm not prepared to put the old box back in, after the struggle I had getting it out!)

Does anyone know if these parts are still available from Citroen dealers?
Or has anyone got suitable bits lying around, that they would be prepared to send / deliver to me quickly?

Please help, if you can! I go back to work next Monday...but only if I have the car back running by then!

All help / advice gratefully accepted (as always!)

Cheers guys

Dave H.
Last edited by mountainmanUK on Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:43 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: URGENT!!! Clutch release lever and pivot shaft!

Post by DavidRutherford » Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:17 pm

mountainmanUK wrote:ex-Pug 306TD box.
2 things spring to mind when you mention a 306TD gearbox. Firstly, you're aware that the gear ratos are different from a N/A aren't you? (that's making the assumption that your TXD is a TXD, and not a TXDturbo.)

Secondly, the 306TD (I believe) uses a pull-type clutch, which means there are differences in the bellhousing and release mechanism (exactly what I can't remember at the moment) as the BX diesels use a "normal" push-type clutch.

I've no direct experience with the 306, but certainly on the 405 with a pull-type clutch, the pin between the release arm and the shaft that goes into the top of the bellhousing is held on with a springy clip, that you ping off (never to be found again) and then the pin is a press fit.

You can confirm if this is the problem you have, as the pull-type clutch has a very odd U-shaped bracket bolted on to the top of the gearbox, which provides an anchor point for the inner of the cable, with the outer of the cable pressing on the release lever.

Photos would be really handy....

Also while I remember.... are the release arm and pivot shaft from your old gearbox no good?
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mountainmanUK

Post by mountainmanUK » Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:28 pm

Hi David!

My TXD IS in fact a TXD Turbo!! :wink:

Yes the Pug box, has the pull-clutch shaft and bracket (U-shaped), but these are simply bolt-on extras to the same box (BE3/5).

I've got the shaft off the new (Pug) box without problems, as it came without a release lever anyway (ex-Stewart (oily!) :wink: ).

Only a couple of minor differences in external brackets etc which I needed to unbolt from the Pug box, and it is now completely identical to my old, noisy, BX box, except that I can't get the shaft and lever off my OLD box, to transfer to the Pug box!

The shaft in the Pug box was different, as it was designed for the pull-clutch, but is now removed ready to accept the shaft from my original box, when I can get it off!

Photos here! :wink

Image
The sheared off pin that I can't remove!

Image
Bellhousing of original BX box

Image
The pivot shaft that I need to transfer to new box

Image
Pug box bellhousing, all ready for BX shaft!

Image
The Pug shaft (note detail differences!)

Image
Gear linkage - Pug 306TD (now transferred)

Image
Gear linkage - BX (now fitted to new Pug box)

Image
Well worn clutch plate!

Image
Well worn cover plate - fingers almost worn through!



EDIT: The Cit Parts Manual (admittedly for 16v, but looks the same!) lists the necessary parts as......

FORK LEVER ENSEMBLE (ASSEMBLY) A+B+10 (Lever + Shaft + Pin)
Part No. 94 02 115 150 RP 2115 25
Last edited by mountainmanUK on Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by jeremy » Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:10 pm

I have never dismantled either but the clutch operating lever on my 1989 TD BX looks exactly the same as that on our 1994 ZX 1.9D. Apparently the clutch on that changed shortly after that car was made (Oct 1994?)

I believe the operating arm can split at the clamp to the vertical rod - and that the common bodge is to weld them together. Later (pre Oct 94) cars may have been modified - probably slightly thicker metal.

While you've got it all apart have a look at the bushes in the bell housing supporting the vertical operating rod. If they are worn they may be worth replacing to give a nice light clutch pedal. I don't think they are expensive.

mountainmanUK

Post by mountainmanUK » Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:20 pm

Thanks Jeremy! Yes....the plastic "bearings" for the pivot shaft are only 87p + VAT each!!! The ones in my old box were very slack, but the Pug ones are nice 'n firm!

The pivot shaft hasn't been welded to the lever....but some kind of shear-bolt looks to have been driven in, now totally unremovable!!!! :twisted:

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Post by jeremy » Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:40 pm

I don't think its a bolt - I think its a cotter pin - like the things they (used to) use to hold bicycle pedals on. Its tapered with a flat side on it and is pulled in tight.

mountainmanUK

Post by mountainmanUK » Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:49 pm

No mate.....it SHOULD have been a cotter pin......but this definitely had a thread, although by the time I took the pics there was none of it visible. When I first took the box off there was 0.5-1 mm of clear thread showing, with what lloked like a sheared-off head now missing. I'm pretty sure that it wasn't a "factory fitting"....probably a bodge by some earlier owner!

I was hoping that I could have drilled out whatever it was...but it seems to be VERY hard. I havn't got a drill bit that will make anything more than a dent in it. I even tried a very fine hardcore bit, to try to get a pilot hole, but even that wouldn't bite!

There seems to be no way to split the lever off the shaft, without destroying one or the other (i.e. angle grinder!) :cry:

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Post by DavidRutherford » Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:07 pm

Right... Understand now! the bodge is in your original gearbox, not the new one. My mistake.

The good news is that the hole in the shaft, and the hole in the release arm are plain. Probably what has happened is that someone has lost the pin that belongs in there, and has hammered in a bolt instead.

What you can do is move the selector shaft up, such that the release fork is right at the top of the bellhousing. This puts the release lever clear of the top of the gearbox.

Now... mount this somehow so that you won't damage anything (tip the gearbox over and use something solid to rest it on) and then use a big hammer and punch to beat merry hell out of whatever is jammed in there.

If that fails, get the grinder out, and cut the sodding thing off. I have a spare release fork and lever I can send you.
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mountainmanUK

Post by mountainmanUK » Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:17 pm

Thank you so much David!! :D

I doubt whether the earlier "bodger" would have bothered tapping a thread into the hole, so your explanation is probably correct!

I am not going to touch it again tonight, but in the morning I shall proceed to beat "merry hell" out of it, with a selection of punches, drifts, etc!!
If it WILL move...I'll move it!!!

I shall post my results around lunchtime tomorrow.....hopefully I won't need you to send your spares, but if necessary I'll gladly pay for some Speedy delivery service (express!!)

Cheers!

Dave

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Post by mat_fenwick » Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:42 pm

Best of luck...just one question though - does your other half know that you've plonked the gearbox down in the flowerbed??? argue:-(

mountainmanUK

Post by mountainmanUK » Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:45 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

That's a WEED bed!!!! (Right next to the front door....so the thieving b&%tards round here stand less chance of nicking owt! :wink: The dog is within 3 feet!!!)

mountainmanUK

Post by mountainmanUK » Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:04 am

Latest Update!:

The pin (or whatever it is!) is still refusing to budge, even after an hour of belting sh1t out of it with varying sizes of 'persuader'!

I haven't really any logical alternative but to dump the old box in the bin, when I can get a working car to move it in! :twisted:

@David.......PM sent mate! :wink:

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Post by DavidRutherford » Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:35 pm

And received.

However... in this case, I stand (or actually, as I'm at the computer, sit) corrected.

Plain pins were used on the pull-type clutch, but it would appear not so on the standard push-type. I've just gone out to go and retrieve the spare push-type mechanism from my scrap box, and it has the same threaded pin sticking out of it.

Which is, without doubt, siezed to hell. So much so that with a bar welded to the end of it for some leverage, and the joint heated up to near melting point, it still won't budge. Soaking in penetrating oil is unlikely to help very much, so I'm left with drilling it out.

Which I'm sure will work. Thereafter, you could make use of a plain pin in the form of the plain bit of a M8 bolt, with the threads cut off. We'll see how it comes out. I'll let you know how it goes.
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Post by docchevron » Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:55 am

Bl**dy kids.... I bet my pension (for the little it's worth) that my hammer would indeed remove that pin!

And probably most of the bell housing with it! :wink: :lol: :lol:
Smokes lots, because enough's enough already!

Far too many BX's, a bus, an ambulance a few trucks, not enough time and never enough cash...

mountainmanUK

Post by mountainmanUK » Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:23 am

Ahhhhhhh! Do you think my theory could be correct, in that the "threaded pin" may have been a 'shear-bolt' type thing? THere seems to be no planned method for removal!! :? No head to grip, no flats, no slot in the end....nada!

I would imagine that a correctly-sized bolt, with a nut and splitpin arrangement will hold the bugger on! Possibly a roll-pin similar to those holding the selector levers.....door hingepin?? :?

At least it's OUTSIDE the gearbox when fitted, so not too bad a job if it did come apart later!

THanks a bunch David! :D