Using axle stands

Boxwolf · Post by **Boxwolf** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:33 pm

I have gone and bought a nice pair of £20 draper axle stands so I can change my accumulator sphere myself. Considering the garage was after £30 to change it and didn't seem sure of what exactly it was, I decided this would be the better option.

However, it has now occurred to me that I haven't the first idea where to stick the axle stands after jacking up each side of the car. I know where the jacking points are but no idea where the axle stands should go.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

paul001 · Post by **paul001** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:56 pm

On each side of the car approx half way along there is a pair of what look like ears the jack sits on those and the axle stands sit on the raises parts on the front/back give or take 3-6 inch from the back of the wheel arch.

Trying to find a picture to make life easier

DavidRutherford · Post by **DavidRutherford** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:23 pm

The roadside emergency jack fits in there, but a trolley jack, or other jack to lift the car up to use axle stands most definitely does not. Plus, if the intention is to lift the front of the car, then you cannot lift one side of the car to insert stands.

As many people have found, you have to be very careful using the jacking points on BX's, as the slightest bend will break the paint/underseal, and introduce corrosion. I would not jack or use axle stands on any part of the sill on a BX. The points just behind the front wheels and just ahead of the back wheels are intended for use with a workshop 2-post lift.

To jack and axle-stand the front of the car, I would recommend using a chunk of timber (2"x4") flat across the front subframe, jacking towards the centre of this, and then using axle stands at either end. The timber needs to be used as jacking/axle standing on the subframe directly will bend it if you're not careful. Make sure the timber is just the right length to spread the load, but doesn't bear on the wishbones.

There is also a strong part of the floor just behind the front subframe, where the box section runs into the floor. This could also be used for jacking or axle stands, but again the load needs to be spread a little, or damage could be done. I've seen plenty of damage done to the floor/subframe of a BX by poor jacking, so do be careful.

Also worthy of mention is if you are using a trolley jack, be very sure that once you've inserted one axle stand, when you jack the other side, the trolley jack doesn't pull the car off the first stand. Bottle jacks are far better in this instance (and with the BX in high, can actually be got into position)

Boxwolf · Post by **Boxwolf** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:50 pm

The only jack I have is the standard one that comes with the BX, I can't really afford a trolley jack after buying the stands.

My intention is to lift the front of the car, but if i can't lift one side to put stands in how am I to do it? I dont really understand the timber method I'm not familiar with what bit the subframe is either.

I was hoping to do this job tomorrow but I need to be sure of what i'm doing.

Boxwolf · Post by **Boxwolf** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:40 pm

Okay its looking like i'll need to get a trolley jack anyway, as theres no way I could jack the whole front up with the little wheel changing jack.

If I was to do it without the timber, what are the best places to put the axle stands if the sills are to be avoided? Also, where would the trolley jack need to go to raise the front of the car?

I'm guessing theres no easy way to do this like putting the suspension on high and then sticking the axle stands in...

DavidRutherford · Post by **DavidRutherford** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:42 pm

Boxwolf wrote:The only jack I have is the standard one that comes with the BX

Which is for emergency use when changing a wheel at the roadside ONLY.

Boxwolf wrote:My intention is to lift the front of the car, but if i can't lift one side to put stands in how am I to do it?

Without a trolley jack or bottle jack, you're not. Do NOT try to lift one side of the car, put a single axle stand at the front, and then lift the other side of the car! You run a very good chance of the car falling off either the stand or the jack. The roadside jack relies on the fact that BOTH the wheels on the other side of the car are on the road for stability.

Boxwolf wrote:I dont really understand the timber method I'm not familiar with what bit the subframe is either.

If you don't know what the subframe is I suggest you get someone to show/help you who does know what they are doing. If you're lucky, you'll onlyl damage the car. Chances are that it will damage you. A lot.

DavidRutherford · Post by **DavidRutherford** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:50 pm

Boxwolf wrote:I'm guessing theres no easy way to do this like putting the suspension on high and then sticking the axle stands in...

You could indeed do that, but make sure that there is something between the axle stand and the car. Axle stands will impose point-loads on the body/subframe, and will most likely put marks in them, or bend them. Small flat pieces of timber will do for this. The best stuff is that nasty light-as-a-feather fast grown pine that everything from Ikea seems to be made from, as it compresses nicely and shapes itself to the car.

The only downside to doing this is that I suspect there won't be enough clearance for you to get in there and properly get to the accumulator sphere.

All you are trying to achieve is that the car will not fall on you, and not damage the car in the process. You cannot rely on the hydraulics, and you don't want to break the paint and make the car rust.

Boxwolf · Post by **Boxwolf** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:09 pm

I think clearance is something i'll definitely need, as I haven't changed anything in an enclosed space before. I will get a trolley jack tomorrow but I need to know where underneath I can stick it that will be safe to lift the car up at the front.

The axle stands I have both have a nice dip in the top to accept the sill piece and prevent them slipping. If i use a bit of wood in them surely they are more likely to slip? Also if the sill/frame did bend slightly would it be possible to just paint over it with anti-corrosion stuff?

DavidRutherford · Post by **DavidRutherford** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:20 pm

As the name implies, Axle stands are designed to fit under axles. Unfortunately, the BX doesn't have an axle at the front, and the one at the rear is really a subframe.

If you insist on not using a chunk of timber across the subframe, then I would suggest you jack the car with the head of the trolley jack on the end of the subframe, somewhere near the inner wishbone bushes, and then place the axle stands directly under the rear subframe mountings.

Bear in mind that a 2-post workshop lift has rubber pads on the end of it's arms, and they are a perfectly vertical lift. This is why they don't damage sills. The same cannot be said of trolley jacks or axle stands.

If this is the first time you've ever jacked a car up then I would STRONGLY recommend you have someone experienced show you how to do it.

Boxwolf · Post by **Boxwolf** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:43 pm

Okay, I dont know where these various bits of subframe are, is it quite obvious? Not sure what the wishbone bushes are either.

This is indeed the first time I have jacked a car up, aside from lifting up one side by the sill with a standard scissor jack and that was my 306 (on various occasions) but I dont have anyone experienced to show me.

DavidRutherford · Post by **DavidRutherford** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:04 pm

To be completely honest, the things you are saying don't give me any confidence that there won't be a post in a couple of days saying "My BX slipped off the jack, and I've broken my hand"

You need someone to show you how it's done. I could explain with a million words and 500 pictures, but there's no substitute for having someone experienced there to show you for the first time. Thereafter, a description will work just fine...

Post by **Tim Leech** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:08 pm

Boxwolf I would head Davids words, your a bit like a younger version of me, very enthusiastic with not alot of mechanical knowledge. If its running ok stick to the smal jobs you can do yourself for now and get someone in the know with the right equipment to help you as noone wants you to damage your car and more importantly injur yourself.

Boxwolf · Post by **Boxwolf** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:14 pm

Okay, I guess i'll just have to wait until someone on here is nice enough to give me a helping hand and show me how to competently jack up the car. I'd be prepared to drive to anyone who's fairly near me if anyone's willing.

I indeed do not wish to injure myself, or my car, so I guess i'll just have to listen to the frantic ticking of the hydraulic pump in the meantime. That or give in and pay the garage £30 to stick my car up on a ramp...

DavidRutherford · Post by **DavidRutherford** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:25 pm

There's no loss in trying to do the job with the car on high and axle stands in place just in case it drops. The access will be restricted, but I suspect it won't make the job impossible.

Just don't forget to relieve the pressure screw by a turn before you remove the sphere, and make sure the new one has its seal in place.

You'd be quite welcome to come to mine and I'll show you, but it's a bit of a trek from yours, and would cost more in fuel than a kind garage would charge to put the sphere on

Boxwolf · Post by **Boxwolf** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:31 am

I might try the 'put the car on full and slip the stands in' technique and see if theres enough room for me to get the job done, are the places where the stands need to go (not the strengthened bits on the sills like the haynes manual tells me) fairly obvious? I have been looking at pics of the underside in the haynes and i'm guessing the big lump of metal just behind the engine is the subframe.

Which bit of this should the stands go under? is it safe to stick them on a flat part underneath where the wheels are jointed (red circles) or would it be better to stick them right where the bolts are, slightly further back from the wheels? (blue circles) or are both these wrong?

Thanks for the offer David, whereabouts are you incidentally?