Afraid I'm running my BX into the ground

Anything about BXs
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jonathan_dyane
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Post by jonathan_dyane »

Philip Chidlow wrote:Trying to think of a cost-effective alternative to a well-maintained Bx is difficult. There have been similar discussions on here before, and the conclusion is generally:
jonathan_dyane wrote: BX is the best compromise IMHO.
Until spares supply dries up, that is.
I really don't think this will be a problem for many years; until recently I drove a GSA as an everyday car, and *never* had trouble getting spares, its just a case of knowing where to look and how to improvise. Further, the BX shares many parts with 80s and 90s Peugeots.

It certainly isn't something I worry about.
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Post by retrodriver »

The only reason I got rid of my Pug 305 was a lack of spares availability, particularly suspension parts. I couldnt get top mounts for love nor money, even the French were cagey about them, I had to adapt 205 ones to fit but it was never right. Hope it doesnt happen with these.
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Post by DLM »

I don't have time to keep up with the work it needs, nor much money to get someone else to do it; I'm not really even up with the oilchanges!
Personal circumstances and a realistic assessment of the condition of the car- to me, those are main factors in deciding to keep a BX going as a daily runner and regular mile-eater.

It strikes me from your mileage and what I know from meeting you briefly that your car is being run more or less as a business tool: your income would dry up pretty soon if it let you down and an alternative wasn't available. No doubt that's informing your current thoughts. Forgive me if all I'm doing is amplifying some of the things running through your mind. Is the XM the stand-in should the BX fail or require work? I'd personally go for a more conventional stand-in if your time and resources are tight. However alluring and more comfortable an XM may be, it's got the potential to be a much bigger time-and-resource muncher than a BX estate workhorse.

What's the current BX mileage? Last clutch replacement and current state, next cambelt change? Next LHM change/filter-clean? Bodywork and pipework audit? Guesstimates of consumable life (exhaust, brakes, tyres, other belts, spheres etc).

I'd second everything that's been said about a BX's general mile-munching and long-trip ability, but they do thrive on regular attention and it's a given that you'll need to find time to spend on this - if not vast amounts of money compared to more recent cars. One thing's for sure though, a BX will start to go downhill rapidly if neglected - but it'll very likely repay your attention to it handsomely if but only if the raw material is practically capable of being kept up to the mark.

A consumer appliance or a low-maintenance fashionable retro-ride a BX is not - a great advantage is that it's one of the few relatively modern cars that can still be DIY-ed, isn't overburdened with electronics, and has the informal but very committed support network that this forum can provide.

Apologies for going on at some length.
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Post by SamWise »

All of this is true, and frankly, even if I replace the BX, almost anything in my pricerange is going to require just as much maintenance. Finding the driveshaft for £40, rather than £140, gives me rather more hope! The XM is fine as a backup, it's generally reliable and does relatively few miles. The bigger worry is that it's my wife's daily, and she's a bit stuffed without it. Wish I could afford a 3rd car!
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Re: Afraid I'm running my BX into the ground

Post by cavmad »

SamWise wrote:Since I got my car, my mileage has increased exponentially. Over the last 3 months I've been doing 3000+ per month, and I've put 12000 on it since I bought it, I think. At the moment, a driveshaft has developed a wobble, plus it needs rear arm bearings, and I can't keep the windscreen washer working. I'm starting to worry that I'm just beating it to death, which for such a low cost car shouldn't be a worry, but it just feels wrong. I don't have time to keep up with the work it needs, nor much money to get someone else to do it; I'm not really even up with the oilchanges!

Would I be smart to let it go to someone who can coddle it a bit more, and buy something I don't mind murdering with 36,000 miles a year? The BX has been great in most ways; it's plenty fast enough, lots of load space, handles nicely, and looks cool, but the seats are nowhere near as comfortable as my XM, which gets to be a bind on a 5 hour trip. Still much better than my old AX.

Were I to replace it, my shortlist for a milemuncher estate would be:

XM
Xantia
Merc 190E
Alfa 156 Sportwagon (a little higher up the cost chain, but still just within reach)

None of these except, perhaps, the Xm, would give me sleepless nights if I felt I was heading it towards the scrappies; any car under £1000 which will give you 55 mpg for a year at that mileage is worth the money even if it has to be replaced the next year.
Merc 190E everytime as much more reliable than the others. They certainly haven't got the character of the Alfa or XM but you won't be fixing the sodding thing every five minutes and to me that's almost priceless.
I won't need to tell most on here but I wouldn't piss on a VW/Audi if it were on fire as they're nowhere near as well built or reliable as some will have you believe.
The 190 IS an old car, but parts are stupidly cheap even from merc themselves, they're reliable, well built and good on fuel. Told the later 1.8s are not so clever but a decent face lift 2.0 makes lots of sense.
They do rust though, usually wheel arch areas but last time I priced new wings they're only about £30 for a pattern part and about £95 new from Mercedes.
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Post by Kitch »

SamWise wrote:
Kitch wrote:What Alfa 156 do you know that'll do 50mpg then mate? :lol: Trust me, none of them will!
The 1.9 diesel. Checked it out several places, and 50-55 on the motorway is normal
Kitch wrote: Also, Merc 190E estate? Only problem with that one is that it doesn't exist, which could make driving it difficult.
I could've sworn there was, and even that I'd been looking at pictures of them, but I can't find 'em now!
Kitch wrote: XM I wouldn't bother. The economy won't be as good as a BX, the insurance and running costs will be more and if you're hammering it into the ground you'll be just as attatched as you are now.
Ah, well I already have an XM, and it is pretty much identical motorway fuel consumption wise to the BX. Insurance is a bit more, but the bigger issue is probably attachment
Kitch wrote: Xantia's a good shout. Dull compared with BX, but a capable and well built car. Economy is only average though (around 40mpg max), but reliable except some of the electrics. Hydractive cars ride ALOT better than basic ones though.
Surely the 1.9 TD does very similar mileage to the BX 1.9 TD?
Kitch wrote: Personally I'd second David's idea of the 405. All the good bits of a BX, plus better build on ph2 cars, more refinement and more space. 406's would dip into this price range now too, even nicer to drive but I've heard electrics are so-so.
Another suggestion I had on Retro Rides was a 605. Sadly, no estates exist!
The Alfa 1.9JTD does not do 50mpg. My dad has an Alfa GT with the newest 1.9JTDm engine in, and it sits around 40-45mpg, and he's not heavy footed. You can say motorway= more MPG, but realistically the cold starts and trips away from the m-ways will balance out the figures. It's also a dull unit (a Vauxhall block with Fiat head) and doesn't have the character of the 5-cyl 2.4JTD. Plus, I'd have thought the 1.9JTD would cost alot more than your other suggestions, as they weren't introduced until later on in the 156's lifespan.

You weren't looking at pics of a 190E estate, they were saloon only. One of the last well-made Mercs, but also one of the dullest. A 124 300D would be more interesting, but the economy on any bigger car won't be as good as a smaller one, petrol or diesel. Will last though.

XM you have as a comparison, but I'd say dumping a BX because you worry about it letting you down and placing all your efforts in an XM is like jumping out of the frying pan into the fire personally.

The Xantia 1.9TD does differ in economy with the BX TD (although I've yet to drive any XUD TD that was genuinely impressive in the economy stakes) because the Xantia is alot heavier and has gearing that's too tall IMO. It's also alot heavier, the turbo is lazier and the other factor is that a BX TD is a 1.8, not 1.9. And every 1.8 XUD I've driven has returned better economy than a 1.9XUD, turbo or not. Good cars, bit dull, but 40mpg tops is realistic. HDI is better on fuel, but also carries electrical issues with injectors, and the crank damper pulleys like to fall off.

I'd generally avoid German stuff, as it just doesn't represent the value of the French stuff, but thats just me. And VW's don't come with the little warning buzzer they need to wake you up when you doze off driving it.
Otherwise I'd also look at Jap. Don't do many great derv engines, but they're endlessly reliable and delightfully imageless.
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Post by SamWise »

The economy I'm looking for is not average, it's motorway. Of my 3000 miles this month, more than 2800 will have been at 60+mph, so when I'm saying the Alfa will do 50, I'm talking about on the motorway. I don't know what my BX does average, but on the motorway, it's 50, or 55 if I drive gently, and the same in the XM. It's not SO much that I'm worried the BX will let me down as that I don't want to kill it, but I might feel the same about an XM, you're right. You're probably also right about the price of the 1.9 Alfa. I wonder what the 2.4 gets on the motorway?

I'm starting to think that really, I need a 3rd car. Something else reasonably reliable (the Herald was never going to get it!) but still cheap. Any of my choices would work, but it would be nice to have something fun. I wonder if I can get a reliable 4 seat convertible in my budget......

The fact is, that if I'm doing the mileage I'm doing, any car, never mind an old one, is going to crap out sometimes. If that means I have to leave my missus without a car, that's no good. Sensibly, if I can afford it, I'd have another one. Part of me is screaming Alfa, Alfa, but another big estate? I dunno. It's gorgeous, the estate more so than the saloon, it'd be more fun to drive than the cars I have now, specially if I decided it was more of an occasional driver and went for the 2.4. Hmmmm.
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Post by retrodriver »

One car that we have got at the moment that has been very impressive is the Rover 620SDi, maybe the best Rover ever made because its a Honda Accord! right down to the front doors being interchangable. Great economy (600 miles to a tank) nice drive, it feels solid and germanic to be honest on the road and it only cost us £250 quid with 7 months MOT. I was expecting to mock it but actually not bad.

Its our work car and does 2k miles a month.

Keep the BX and get an old diesel tatter with nothing to go wrong (!!)
Alex


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Post by Tim Leech »

I agree there Alex, I used to sell these when they were still newish, the 600 was a rebadged honda which is a good thing! and the diesel although a Rover unit is very tough although not that refined. Only thing to watch out for is failed window regulators, rusty back arches caused by those stupid rubber trims and radio displays fading away.
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Post by DLM »

Thought of a diesel ZX as backup the if you can find a decent one? Some are very cheap, the estates slightly less so but good load-carriers. Usual XUD cooling system considerations apply.

Probably the last thing on your mind, but if it's got to be pure backup for emergency, and space/comfort considerations are not vital, a Pug 106 with the 1.5 diesel TU engine is by no means sprightly or exciting, but can be devilishly economical, is likely to withstand period sitting doing very little without ill effects (can vouch for this from personal experience), and just fits into the lower old-car tax bracket. Pure transport, but practical in its own way.
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Post by SamWise »

I had a 1.4 AX diesel which did that job well. I suppose as a total cheapo backup, that's probably the way forward, that or a completely tedious load lugger like a 405 or Carina estate.

The alternate is to buy something else that's more fun, but not AS good on fuel; some sort of inexpensive cabrio (Astra, Megane, perhaps at a stretch an older Saab?), or the 2.4 Alfa. With any of those, I would want to keep running the BX for my stupidly long runs, because I wouldn't want to give away 10-15 mpg most of the time, but I'd have something which wouldn't break the bank when either the BX was poorly, or I felt like a change.

The downside of the AX, which the 106 would probably share is that a man of 6'3 doesn't REALLY fit in it. My head being up in the AX sunroof aperture became wearing on 5 hour drives. Cheap as chips to drive though!
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Post by SamWise »

I've continued to think about this, and now realise I was on the wrong track, for a number of reasons.

1) We NEED 3 cars. I'm doing loads of mileage, and have little time, and if my car breaks down, either I or my wife is stuffed until it can get fixed. A spare would cover that eventuality, and also allow me a little more confidence at tackling the tasks which don't NEED doing, but really SHOULD be done (a new cambelt today, rather than next week, for instance), safe in the knowledge that when I screw it up, and have to take it apart and do it again tomorrow, I won't be stuck for a car

2) We don't have much spare cash

3) The BX is costing me significantly more to run than my old AX. I knew it was more, but when I costed it out, it would be close to £80 in fuel this month. Add that to the higher tax and insurance, and it looks significant over the year.

4) We have one need that none of our cars fulfills. We have a kid, and I have an older son from an earlier marriage. Our closest friends, who we do everything with, have a kid and no car. This means that we're very often tooling around in 2 cars at the weekends.

So, this is what I think makes sense.

1 lovely big comfortable car - the XM. It's already paid for, a known quantity mechanically, and we love it. It gets 55 mpg if I drive it gently on the motorway, and when we need to be wafted around in comfort, it's our answer.

1 small, economical car, for me to rack up the miles in. The obvious candidates are 106 and AX, and eBay has over 60 diesel 106's, compared to 4 diesel AXs. My AX was a little uncomfortable for headroom reasons, so I need to sit in a 106. Are there other options in the small diesel class that will get similar mileage (60 mpg on the motorway regardless of how I drove the AX, and over 70 if I was gentle)? If it could be a cabrio, all the better. I looked at the 205, but it's got the XUD, so it's not really going to make the sort of mileage I want. Oh, and it needs to cost about £500 or less!

1 people carrier and/or truck. I can't go back to a real people carrier; I had a Toyota Previa before, and it would barely get 30 mpg on the motorway. If I had to use that for a 1000 mile week as a backup, it would hurt! Therefor, as far as I can see, my options are a CX Familiale (benefits include all forward facing seats, 8 seats rather than 7, and it's a wonderful Citroen. Downsides include rust, age and availability), or a Merc W124 (pluses include availability, reliability. Downsides include rear facing seats, and slightly lower fuel consumption). Either of these will do sterling work carrying big things around, or carrying 7 people, and have low enough consumption that it won't break the bank to use them as backup, or just to choose to take them out for the day to blow out the cobwebs.


So, the upshot is that I think my BX will be for sale in about August!
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Post by jonathan_dyane »

The 205D is in many ways a far more pleasant car to run than the AX/106, and rather better for those of height. It is not as economical however.
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Post by Philip Chidlow »

Have you considered a Volvo (same pluses and minuses as the W124 though, I guess), or a Peugeot 505 7-seater (getting rare now though) or a TD Synergie/Ulysse/806?
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Post by RxBX »

There's a Peugeot 505 7-8-seater on 'E' bay now :-
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1989-PEUGEOT-505- ... dZViewItem

Mind you has done a good mileage 268,200 :!:
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