Afraid I'm running my BX into the ground

[jonathan_dyane]

In terms of looking for absolute economy, you might start looking for an LPG converted vehicle. Granted you can achieve 60-65mpg in a 1.5D AX/106/Saxo, but you have to try quite hard to do so (I never really achieved more than 50 in my mother's old 106 1.4D) and your journey times will be irritatingly long.

I'm not a great fan of the AX/106 (mainly due to the difficulty I have folding my 6'6" frame into one) but in their defence, must say I have found the economy of the AX rather better than your findings with the 106. My mother had two, and the first in her hands (a 1.5) easily managed ITRO 58mpg, whereas the second (a 1.4) regularly achieved over 60mpg. I never drove the 1.5 any distance, but drove the 1.4 quite a lot. I had done a lot of work on the engine, but I have to say the engine was an absolute gem, very nippy (better than the 1.5) and on a long run in the worst conditions imaginable (any distance in it gave me chronic back pain so I was sitting at 90-95 to make time [not quite flat out] for most of the journey and the rest in a barely moving jam on the M6.) I still got over 50mpg. Definately earned my respect then, although I never wanted to drive the horrid little thing again...

But, I have to say I think the idea of a LPG 1.4 BX is an excellent idea, and would be ideal for the job. Like you say, I know what I'd rather be driving...

[SamWise]

Interesting views. At 47 mpg, a Sharan/Alhambra is worth a thought. An estate with an extra row is more appealing in my mind, but the extra space in something like those is a big bonus.

I had a quick squint at the LPG motors on eBay, and it looks like price might be a problem. Whilst there's a plethora of 106's on £400 BINs, there were only two LPG cars under a grand, and one of those was a Corsa that was already on £500. Of course, I have to weigh up purchase cost against running cost, so it's not impossible that I'd go for one on the basis that it was gonna save me the extra purchase cost over the year. Retro Rides turns up some LPG beasts too, but often they're Jags and the like (tempting, but actually not achieving what I want!)

[DavidRutherford]

An estate with an extra row

As far as I can see, the arrival of the "people carrier" class of vehicle has effectively killed off the three-row estate car. The CX was probably the last car sold like that, and TBH, I suspect you'll struggle to find a CX familiale in the condition you want for the price you're looking at. Plus it will be more expensive to maintain than a more modern people carrier, and the DTR turbo 2 (the only one worth having) will achieve low 40's MPG. Good for the design age of the engine, but not good when compared with other vehicles available now.

The other people carrier worth looking at is the Peugeot 806 / Citroen Evasion/Synergy thingymajig.
Not a bad people carrier, but I think the Galaxy/Sharan is a better vehicle.

[Philip Chidlow]

I have a 1997 Fiat that cost just over £700. And it's great. Much bigger inside than a Galaxy/Sharan etc. With all but the front row of seats removed is a proper loadlugger too. And a massive advantage are the sliding doors either side.

For a largish MPV with a footprint comparable to a family car you could do a lot worse for the money. Just need to find a good diesel one. And that's the issue I guess.

A 2.0 petrol doing 30 mpg is easier to come by but not what you want?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0379181381

[DavidRutherford]

I have a 1997 Fiat that cost just over £700. And it's great. Much bigger inside than a Galaxy/Sharan etc. With all but the front row of seats removed is a proper loadlugger too. And a massive advantage are the sliding doors either side.

No doubt that's because it's essentially a Van with seats and carpet, whereas the Galaxy/Sharan is a car and a car only.. there's no van version. Consequently I think it's a much nicer vehicle if you're looking for a car rather than a van.

[Philip Chidlow]

Oh stuff it up yer bum. (JOKE - I wouldn't recommend putting anything - especially an MPV - up a bottom)

Seriously If I want a car to drive I buy a car. And, driving a van is actually fun - and not at all uncomfortable.

[Way2go]

I have a 1997 Fiat that cost just over £700. And it's great. Much bigger inside than a Galaxy/Sharan etc. With all but the front row of seats removed is a proper loadlugger too. And a massive advantage are the sliding doors either side.

No doubt that's because it's essentially a Van with seats and carpet, whereas the Galaxy/Sharan is a car and a car only.. there's no van version. Consequently I think it's a much nicer vehicle if you're looking for a car rather than a van.

To which Phil replied, somewhat throwing the toys out of his pram!

Oh stuff it up yer bum. (JOKE - I wouldn't recommend putting anything - especially an MPV - up a bottom)

Seriously If I want a car to drive I buy a car. And, driving a van is actually fun - and not at all uncomfortable.

However from my reading of this, David was agreeing with what was posted rather than dissing your "van". So this time an undue storm in a teacup!
Could be wrong I suppose and then David will be along shortly to correct me.

[DavidRutherford]

Seriously If I want a car to drive I buy a car.

Indeed, which is why I'm heartily recommending a car to Sam, as that's more what he's after.

And, driving a van is actually fun - and not at all uncomfortable.

I know... I own one! (a proper van that is, with ply lining and the like. none of this namby-pamby carpet malarky! )

The only point I'm making is that Sam has said that he's had a people carrier before, and it was far to Van-like for what he's looking for, hence if there's a people carrier which is as car-like as possible, that might be the ideal one for him. Having driven a fair number of people carriers over the years, the most car-like one (aside from a CX familiale!) I can think of is the Galaxy/Sharan, and it's a really good vehicle too. The 806/Synergy isn't bad either, but is definitely more Van-like, most noticeably from the driving position.

... which is the main objection I have to most people carriers... the driving position reminds me of a van. Toyota previa? Van. Chrysler Voyager? Van. Renault Espace? Van-ish. 806? Van-ish. Might as well buy a Transit minibus....

Only other vehicle that is that many seats and reasonable to drive is the Citroen Berlingo with seats. That drives quite nicely, only problem is it looks like a van!

[Way2go]

Could be wrong I suppose and then David will be along shortly to correct me.

OK, looks like I was wrong, sorry Phil.

[Philip Chidlow]

Fair do's I was having a silly moment. Sometimes a man of my middling age gets irrational! I am after all 48 today!

[Tim Leech]

Fair do's I was having a silly moment. Sometimes a man of my middling age gets irrational! I am after all 48 today!

Ah yes you are Many happy returns Mr C! not long now until the half century

[SamWise]

This is interesting stuff. So, it seems like my options are, on the economy car front:

An AX/106/Saxo. I need to assess how well I fit any of these, and also address whether the 106 can match the mpg I got from my AX. In that, I could get just over 70 mpg by driving at 60 mph, but more importantly, it got around 15 mpg more at any speed than my BX or XM driven at the same speed. I also loved parking it!

Something LPG powered. This seems like a great option if I can find the right vehicle, but I have concerns on two fronts. One is whether I can really get anything within my bedget (I really want to spend about £500 or less, and 106s are easy to find at that price). Another is longevity: cars I can afford tend to have well over 100,000 miles on them, whichh bothers me not one jot when it's a diesel with a good rep for longevity, but rather more with petrol engines, which in my experience are getting pretty worn out at that mileage. The perfect LPG storm would, of course, be either something which already does 50mpg on petrol. That or a cabrio.....(Me, want the moon?)

On the people carrying front, it's either a big estate, probably Merc or Citroen, or a proper MPV. I would have ruled out an MPV on consumption, rather than driving dynamics grounds. My Previa was boring and a bit van-like to drive, but very comfortable and capable, and I really only sold it because of the fuel consumption (30 mpg was doing well!). Now, if a Sharan/Galaxy/Alhambra can get colse to 50, it looks very good. Inevitably, my super-economy car will break down sometimes, and I'll have to go hooning around long distances in whatever the people carrier is, so consumption is still important, but beyond that, space is more important than dynamics. To whit, if you can easily remove the rear seats and have essentially a carpeted van, that wins over a car-like Alhambra if it matches the consumption. I frequently seem to be transporting quite large things around (I own a tandem which doesn't fit in any of my current cars), so huge is a win.Can a Ulysse match David's quoted consumption for the Sharan?

I really appreciate you chaps input, it's helping me think carefully and make the right decision.

[Philip Chidlow]

A 96-02 Ulysse/Synergie/806 1.9TD will do 35-45 mpg on a run. According to the reviews I have. The FIAT brochure says 46+ is possible. It gives combined as 36.

[MULLEY]

Now i may be wrong, i thought that 106's had longer gearing than the ax, so it should be a better long distance cruiser?

[SamWise]

That'd be interesting to know. My 1.4 AX was really spinning at 80 mph, and that wasn't my favourite feature!