Rob's BX is making him ill...help!

BX Tech talk
Stewart (oily!)
1K Away
Posts: 1604
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 6:23 pm
Location: North Wales

Post by Stewart (oily!) »

My recon pump cost me £146 :x and made.........absolutely no difference, then I swapped the FDV, no difference, pressure regulator, same, hydraflush......things are beginning to happen, I just have to take it all to bits again to fit new seals (which I did not have to hand when I was troubleshooting) I am still unsure what did the trick finally.
Stewart
TZD 19 TD one of the few
Xantia Td estate, going soft

RKM
Confirmed BX'er
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:06 pm

Post by RKM »

Would the FDV therefore be responsible for the steering cutting in and out with the pump or would that be the pressure regulator / accumulator sphere?

Also what is the relationship between the pressure regulator & the FDV?

Thanks again guys!

Rob

jeremy
Over 2k
Posts: 2112
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:58 am
Location: Hampshire UK

Post by jeremy »

The circuit on a PAS car is reservoir, pump, FDV, regulator/accumulator, safety valve, suspension and brakes. The Flow Divider valve's function is to supply the power steering and so you can see that the regulator, accumulator etc are not in the same circuit.

The FDV provides a small bleed which allows LHM to flow through the pinion valve and back to the reservoir. Turn the wheel, the bleed ceases, the rise in pressure is communicated to the FDV which then operates and cuts off or reduces the flow to the regulator and hence the rest of the system.

So the regulator and accumulator are not in the steering system.

On the regulator is a pressure relief screw. This traps a ball bearing and when undone allows the accumulator pressure to be released and if left open with the engine running will allow LHM to go straight back to the tank. This is useful to expel air from the first bit of the circuit.

I suppose if the pinion valve is working correctly you could trace the return to the reservoir (I think its shared with height correctors but am not sure) you should see a small but steady flow when the steering is relaxed but this should cease when the wheel is turned to operate the pinion valve. If it doesn't then the communicating pressure rise to the FDV won't be happening - and you may have found the problem.

FDV's seem to suffer from leaks but seem to have been blamed for many problems which remained after replacement. They can be overhauled and the kit is about £20. it contains 'O' rings and spring clips for the caps, 2 new filters and a set of pipe LHM seals. the thing itself is very difficult to get apart as the cups (5?) have to be depressed to get the locating springs out then persuaded to come out the same way. When I did mine I had to remove the rust and paint at the top of the bores with a wire brush and stone on a dremel type drill. All your good intentions of recording how it comes apart dissappear when you're trying to find the bits. Diagrams of how its supposed to go back together can be found on the net.

Mine was no better after overhaul than the one it was intended to replace. My problems were entirely different - good steering but the pressure warning light would come on and it turnedout that the presure relief valve in the original regulator had been assembled wrongly.

If the FDV seems to be leaking have a good look to find out where it really is coming from. It may be the pipes - cure obvious - or it may be the screw in plug (adjuster) with hex socket. this can be removed in situ on a TD BX and has a normal 'O' ring on its shaft.

jeremy

User avatar
mnde
Meteor Man
Posts: 1453
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:10 pm
Location: Aldershot, Hants
My Cars: 2007 Citroen Xsara Picasso 1.6 16V VTX
1982 Citroen GSA Spécial Estate - gone to a new home
1991 Citroen BX16 TGS Meteor - still out there somewhere!

Post by mnde »

Rob!! Sorry, I can't contribute much to this thread, but, how are you doing? :D TMV is having major money spent on it at the moment!! Come over to the BX Pond and I'll tell you more!

Gents, meet the previous owner of my GSA :)

Good to see you here!

Mark.

User avatar
ken newbold
Over 2k
Posts: 4408
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 10:53 pm
x 5

Post by ken newbold »

Thanks Jeremy, begining to get lonely on this one. very good description.

The bit you weren't sure about, the return from the pinion valve, this is the thickest of the 3 pipes which comes to the front return (octopus) and then back to the tank.

The other two being, front height corrector and the rear returns.

RKM
Confirmed BX'er
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:06 pm

Post by RKM »

Cheers Mark!

I hope you are doing well and TMV isn't bleeding you dry too much! Ah, what a great car that was!!

Thankfully my mileage has dropped a bit since being in Kent, but now working up closer to hope as I am thinking of doing a masters: BX is due for money to be spent on it this year to keep it happy; but am reluctnat to do it 'till I have sorted the steering out!

R

RKM
Confirmed BX'er
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:06 pm

Post by RKM »

P.S. Mark - I hope you are not going to demand a refund!!!!

User avatar
mnde
Meteor Man
Posts: 1453
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:10 pm
Location: Aldershot, Hants
My Cars: 2007 Citroen Xsara Picasso 1.6 16V VTX
1982 Citroen GSA Spécial Estate - gone to a new home
1991 Citroen BX16 TGS Meteor - still out there somewhere!

Post by mnde »

No chance mate! :) How are you getting on with your BX problem - I seem to remember several stories on here about stiff steering, or intermittent, worse one way than the other... and at least one exploding steering ram! :shock:

Hope you sort it soon!
Mark.

RKM
Confirmed BX'er
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:06 pm

Post by RKM »

The guys here are being very helpful - the steering is being a right pain in the arse, not being helped by the fact that slackening off the bleed screw and thrashing the car whilst turning the steering frees it: it doesn't make sense!! I am going mad!!

RKM
Confirmed BX'er
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:06 pm

Post by RKM »

Just come back from the postoffice in it: God it is horrible!! I have taken a picture of the leaking FDV: there are 2 round hole type things on each side of it, both of which are leaking. I can post an image if that is of help.

Why does the FDV leak exactly? It has only started doing it since I replaced the pump, and is leaving a small puddle each night under the car!

Rob[/img]

jeremy
Over 2k
Posts: 2112
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:58 am
Location: Hampshire UK

Post by jeremy »

The 'Holes' you describe are the assembly bores that I describe in my post above. they are sealed with very thin 'O' rings which come in the overhaul kit. They may be obtainable elsewhere but where Ihaven't a clue.

Why are they leaking? - probably increased pump pressure.

jeremy

RKM
Confirmed BX'er
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:06 pm

Post by RKM »

I assume the replacement pump has made it leak, as it started doing it straight after the it was swopped.

I think the accumulator sphere is also passed its best, so I will get that changed soon. ticking is around the 40 sec mark, and the rear end doesn't rise very quickly when the engine is off with me sitting in it. Only goes up 2 inches tops.

There is a 80,000 miles immaculate BX TGD Turbo in our local breakers that has had a shunt in the rear, so I will rob the flow distributor off that, and see if I can rebuild it.

Before all of that, MoT beckons 4PM tomorrow!!

jeremy
Over 2k
Posts: 2112
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:58 am
Location: Hampshire UK

Post by jeremy »

Whatever you do, don't touch the second hand one - just fit it and see what happens. If the car was hit from behind the chances are it was working before and still will be. If you take it apart you may not get it back together properly and if it doesn't work properly you will still be wondering what was at fault. If you really want to overhaul one do the one off your car but they are so horrible to fit you won't want to change them more often than you have to!

jeremy

RKM
Confirmed BX'er
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:06 pm

Post by RKM »

Please please don't tell me I have to take the radiator out! I have only just replaced it after changing the alternator!!

jeremy
Over 2k
Posts: 2112
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:58 am
Location: Hampshire UK

Post by jeremy »

What BX is it? I've changed the regulator and FDV on mine without removing the radiator - and the alternator for that matter. (BX TD)

jeremy