Wanted - BIG pipe . . .

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MULLEY
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Post by MULLEY » Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:04 pm

Your'e probably right Jay about the turbo models suffering more with poor cold airflow, i was looking at it from a slightly different perspective, very little power to begin with, so it would make the car very lethargic, even if technically the turbo model would show the bigger loss in performance. I hope i managed to explain ok?

My suspect is on a dirty air filter or because the clarification on the nature of the issue, it could be a dirty fuel filter which is hindering performance? Some easy things to check though before worrying too much. Once they've been eliminated then we should get the thinking hats on.
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Post by Tim Leech » Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:08 pm

I would stick some injector cleaner in and a new air filter, repair the pipe as best you can (make sure it hasnt collapsed internally) and give it a run and see how you do.

When I got the TZD it was a bit lethargic, new airfilter plus come redex diesel cleaner plus a good thrash did it the world of good.
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Post by Paul296 » Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:45 pm

Mulley wrote: My suspect is on a dirty air filter or because the clarification on the nature of the issue, it could be a dirty fuel filter which is hindering performance? Some easy things to check though before worrying too much. Once they've been eliminated then we should get the thinking hats on.
Roverman wrote:I would stick some injector cleaner in and a new air filter, repair the pipe as best you can (make sure it hasnt collapsed internally) and give it a run and see how you do.

When I got the TZD it was a bit lethargic, new airfilter plus come redex diesel cleaner plus a good thrash did it the world of good.
Sounds like a plan! If the power hadn't (mostly) returned when I took the pipe off I might have been a bit more worried - I'll put the pipe back on, give everything a good clean/replace filters/ stick some injector cleaner in, and I'm sure she'll be back to 0-60 in a blistering 17.5 seconds! :D

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Post by mat_fenwick » Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:42 pm

Assuming it has an air filter at all and hasn't sucked up the insides of the old hose/a rag/next door's cat....
A minute to 60 suggests something wrong rather than just 17 N/A 'performance' but if it's a sudden issue this suggests (to me at least) something other than a gradual deterioration of injectors/dirty filters.
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Post by Paul296 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:16 am

mat_fenwick wrote:Assuming it has an air filter at all and hasn't sucked up the insides of the old hose/a rag/next door's cat....
A minute to 60 suggests something wrong rather than just 17 N/A 'performance' but if it's a sudden issue this suggests (to me at least) something other than a gradual deterioration of injectors/dirty filters.
The '0-60 in a minute' was before I took the pipe off. Once it was off it was just 'really sluggish'. I'll clean everything up then see what it's like. If it's not 'just dirty' what else could it be?

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Post by BX Meteor » Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:51 am

Maybe you're simply not getting full revs, you could start by looking to see if the throttle pedal in the car is giving full range of movement of the lever on the injection pump.

Just get someone to slowly move the throttle pedal in the car while you watch the movement of the lever on the pump, when they say it's at full throttle in the car, is there any movement left on the lever on the pump.

Otherwise, are you sure it's running on all four cylinders, maybe one of the injectors is duff ... I don't know what an XUD sounds or looks like when it's running on 3 cyclinders, but on my DS 23 Electronic Fuel Injection (EFI petrol) it ran OK but with reduced power on 3 cylinders (that was simply a loose wire to an injector). Note that yours is not EFI but mechanical so you wont simply have a loose wire.

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Post by Defender110 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:15 am

/\ The lack of this pipe shouldn't really noticeably effect engine performance as it is just a pre-filter induction pipe (the foam lining is just an induction silencer) As Brian has suggested I would check your throttle cable to make sure you are getting full rev's (not with the engine running) The cables stretch over time and need occasional adjustment which is very easily done by removing the retainer clip & extending the outer sleeve length.
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Post by JayW » Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:03 am

I'd agree with the general service angle, the air filter being the most likely culprit.

If you're running on less than 4 cylinders you'll know about it! :wink:

It's unlikely a stretched throttle cable would affect acceleration as that would only limit the max.throttle available at the very top of the range and not throughout it.
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Post by BX Meteor » Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:06 am

/\ but if you can't get full throttle then you won't get full power so your acceleration is poor
... Paul did say ..."The '0-60 in a minute' was before I took the pipe off. Once it was off it was just 'really sluggish'. I'll clean everything up then see what it's like. If it's not 'just dirty' what else could it be"
... so it's another simple thing to check

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Post by JayW » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:31 pm

Whilst trying to avoid being a pedant :wink: Full throttle is not strictly related to full power, particularly in a diesel than it's petrol equivalent as the power band is significantly lower in the rev range. Whilst a 20% loss in the rev range would affect the attainable top speed it's effect on acceleration would be very limited due to the power delivery range. The reality is that even on a power run you'd be unlikely to red-line a diesel as the power/torque tails off significantly earlier.

Anyway, i'd still look around the air filter area or get the injectors tested (had mine done recently on the TD and after 90k they were surprisingly almost perfect, good investment for £24). Failing that, it really could be just the fact that it's a little 17 n/a (i've never had one so wouldn't know what to expect).
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Post by BX Meteor » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:34 pm

/\ the illogic of "i've never had one so wouldn't know what to expect" speaks for itself .... and in an XUD N/A workshop manual "throttle cable adjustments" are just written by an ink thief :lol:

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Post by Oilyspanner » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:50 pm

I never noticed any real difference with or without that pipe apart from a little induction roar.
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Post by JayW » Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:42 pm

BX Meteor wrote:/\ the illogic of "i've never had one so wouldn't know what to expect" speaks for itself .... :lol:
I was referring to how much power he could expect from a 17 n/a. Only ever having had 17TD's, 19TD's and 19n/a i couldn't comment on whether it is lacking or not other than i'd expect it to be lathargic out of the box :lol:
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Post by RxBX » Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:02 pm

Paul296 wrote:
Roverman wrote:Paul have you tried reusing that one by getting some material tape and wrapping it round the lot?
I could gaffa tape it all back up - it might do the job (?) - but look like a dogs breakfast! I think I might do that anyway until I can find a replacement.

edit: STOP PRESS! NT Shaw have one (I think)

' 1 Air intake pipe, to filter casing 1.7 TD(?) 95639404'

Do you think thats for a turbo diesel - and if it is what's the difference if any?
Hi Paul,
I only guessing (As TD's don't use any induction pipework manufactured from the paper/card over the Aluminium flexi-tube) but I would have a stab at its the lower one in the photo below possibly ?

Image

But I do have one like the one in you OP :-

Image
It is a used one and has obviously seen better day's, but it not severed so it maybe okay for your needs, some tokens to buy a beers with will secure it (when you pick the other parts up your needing) :wink:

:)

.

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Post by mds141 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:53 pm

Paul would it be worth trying a heating supplies or Wickes DIY store. That pipe looks like air conditioning conduit. :)
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