GT mediated Awesomeness

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citsncycles
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Re: GT mediated Awesomeness

Post by citsncycles » Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:00 pm

As I said at the weekend, you may be lucky, but you don't know until you try. I've known a TU engined BX bend every valve at idle speed on a mates driveway, while another mates Pug 405 GTi was fine after it snapped it's belt at around 40mph!

I believe this design engine can either just bend the valves, or break the camshaft too - the latter is easy to check by simply removing the cam cover. if it's intack then even if there's valve damage, it shouldn't cost too much to fix.
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Re: GT mediated Awesomeness

Post by saintjamesy89 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:19 am

I have finally managed to sort my tax situation out, after FOUR phone calls over that many months all saying the same thing "you've over charged my tax for the last 6 months, because my employment history on you're records is wrong" a very helpful lady this morning sorted it all out in 10 minutes, all she did was change the dates on my employment history and it's sorted! I expect a statement within 14 days and a cheque soon afterwards. Apparently the problem was, according to their records working 4 jobs at once - so had no tax relief and was paying 250-350 a month in bloody tax. On a salary of 1100 a month, that's quite a large chunk!

So with this tax refund, I can spend some on the GT. Starting with a new cambelt, which i'll have to pay someone to do as there is no way i'd be able to get the crank pulley bolt undone with a snapped belt. Then with a new belt on, get a compression test done and see what the situation is. All being well (i really really hope it is!) change all the fluids and bung her in for a MOT and get her exhaust manifold gasket done at the same time. Maybe have her ready for the NEC??

TXD will need welding too if it's staying long term...
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Re: GT mediated Awesomeness

Post by citsncycles » Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:32 pm

you should still be able to get the bolt undone, it'll just take a bit more effort that's all! If you unbolted the cam so all the valves were closed you should still be able to use the starter to undo it.
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Re: GT mediated Awesomeness

Post by saintjamesy89 » Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:21 pm

Hmm, that's interesting. By taking the cam out so the valves are closed - this means that none of them can be bent (or maybe more bent!). You say the starter will still undo it, I thought the starter used the cambelt to rotate the engine - is this not so? Thinking about it now, it's obvious. If the starter operated via the cambelt then it'd be continuously spinning = bad, also it's halfway along the engine so would need a long drive to the belt.

How are the valves secured, do they just sit in their recess/guide and held by cam and rockers? If the cam is out I could just oik the valves out and have a look? I don't know how the rocker system works - I get how the cam and valves work.

As always Mike, you make things sound so easy, and look so easy too!
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Re: GT mediated Awesomeness

Post by citsncycles » Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:22 pm

You'll need the head off to drop the valves and check them, but if you remove the cam cover and undo the camshaft and not all the valves close (will be obvious if one is sat lower than the others) then it's definately bent! The valves pass through the head, the valve springs and a top cap, all of which is hld by a pair of collets (little semi circular pieces that fit into a groove in the top of the valve to stop it falling out).

As for removing the crank bolt with the starter (which incidentally drives the flywheel at the other end of the engine) you need to find find a suitable size socket and a good quality T bar and position it so that the T bar is jammed underneath the Suspension A arm or drive shaft, then flick the starter on a couple of times, which should start the bolt turning. Please note the comment about a good quality bar - a cheap one will just shear the square drive off (guess how I know!)
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Re: GT mediated Awesomeness

Post by mat_fenwick » Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:50 pm

I'd advise a 6 sided socket too, for better grip on the head. 22 mm from memory - it's been a while since I did a petrol but think they are the same. My offer of help still stands, but you'll learn a lot from doing it or at least attempting it yourself. It doesn't run now so you have nothing to lose in making it immobile, and you can't cause any harm to the engine if you check everything properly before trying to start it.
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Re: GT mediated Awesomeness

Post by saintjamesy89 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:14 pm

Made some good progress today, cam is out. Was much less complicated than I anticipated and I only managed to lose one nut (lower dizzy securing nut), it all looks very healthy inside - what I can see of the inside that is. Cam has no marks and the contact area between cam and valves (collets/valve caps?) are perfect looking with no marks.

Cam cover and lubrication manifold off.
Image

Cam sprocket surprisingly easy to get off, using a 10mm timing dowel to stop it from rotating and a 17mm long spanner and hammer to release the bolt. Left distributor semi attached (wiring only attached still), unbolted but out of the way. Fuel pump was loose, unsure whether i'll be able to reuse the gasket either - put some old engine oil on it to stop it drying out though.
Image

Cam out, hooray! Was very fiddly getting the dizzy end out of it's little housing, and I didn't take the cam sprocket inner cover/backplate off either, that involved taking all the engine mounts off on that side, I got halfway through doing that and one bolt looked like a bitch to access so gave up and just bent it ever so slightly to lift the cam out. Again, cam looks very healthy.
Image

Valve caps/collets, looking good (except dirty oil). Will probably get new gaskets involved here, the sprocket end gasket and cam cover mainly. Is there one at the dizzy end? Just pulled the cam out of it's housing here, didn't see any reason why I shouldn't ie no bits attached or restricting the cam (except housing).
Image

All valves are sitting well too, they look all the same height. I may have found the reason for the belt snapping in the first place. I don't think it was just wear - I found a timing dowel (10mm diameter bolt) sticking out of the cam sprocket. Could I have been stupid enough to leave this in and then try to start the car? I Suppose if I left it in last October when I first tried doing the belt, then forgot and tried to start the car this year (cringe - repeatedly) it's quite possible. Felt quite angry at myself about that. Maybe the coil and IM are fine too then? Although they made Tim's old TRS estate run very lumpy when I swapped them over.

Tomorrow, or Monday depending on when halfords closes, I shall be buying a breaker bar, and a 21mm hex socket (for crank pulley bolt, I measured it with my adjustable today)! Commenceth operation get-GT-roadworthy-but-running-first.
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Re: GT mediated Awesomeness

Post by saintjamesy89 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:16 pm

Would this also be a good time to have a look at getting the exhaust manifold bolts undone? Would save me some notes if I could do the gasket myself. I suppose the best way would be to repeatedly soak them with penetrating fluid (what's better than WD40 guys? Can't remember) before tackling the nuts :D

Offer of help still noted Mat (thanks!), if all goes well then I shall hopefully not need your services - but we shall see, I may get stuck with something.
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Re: GT mediated Awesomeness

Post by MULLEY » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:55 pm

PlusGas seems to get quite a few votes for penetrating the areas that wd40 doesn't.
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Re: GT mediated Awesomeness

Post by mat_fenwick » Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:29 pm

A bit of heat prior to applying penetrating oil might help too. WD40 is a jack of all trades rather than being especially good at anything so Plus Gas is probably the one to go for. Just one point - did you mark which cam caps go where? I can't remember if the petrol end ones are identical or not?
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Re: GT mediated Awesomeness

Post by saintjamesy89 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:45 am

Thanks chaps, i'll give plusgas a go then. Unfgortunately the only way I can think of getting heat there is by blowtorch - which i'd be very nervous about given the flammable/meltable things in the vicinity.

Mat, the end bearing caps have plates on the peripheral side, and the middle three are numbered. I layed them out in L-R order anyway though.
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Re: GT mediated Awesomeness

Post by Tim Leech » Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:41 am

Keep up the good work Tom, it will be worth it in the end.
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Re: GT mediated Awesomeness

Post by BX Bandit » Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:06 pm

It'll be the cam caps AND shims you need to keep in valve order! It'll be worth checking the valve clearances whilst you're there James.

Btw, that's an usual dash isn't it? Not see one like that before. I though all mk 1s were the lego dash....apart from the digit that is

Edit: let those manifold studs soak for as long as you can, pref soaking them every day for at least a week. Also, you need to put a torque sensor in your arm - don't be tempted to use brute force to undo them, if in doubt try working the stud by undoing a fraction and then doing it up again, gradually moving in the undo direction. The last thing you want is a snapped stud, will prob be a head off job if you do
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Re: GT mediated Awesomeness

Post by saintjamesy89 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:05 pm

Thanks Tim :) Sure will.

Bandit, no shims have come off yet, just the bearing caps. Are the shims the big circular bits that the cam lobes contact (as seen in the last picture above)? Regarding the dash, the GT was the only MK1 to have a non lego dash, discounting the digit of course. I've snapped exhaust bolts before, fortunately at the downpipe connection rather than head on a vauxhall frontera I had once, I thought it was turning, then ping! It sheared.

Need to buy some bits then I can get on with the rest of the job, our bees swarmed this afternoon so will have to sort them out - buy the bits tomorrow.
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Re: GT mediated Awesomeness

Post by citsncycles » Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:00 pm

The shims are under those big circular bits (the cam followers), and it's a bit involved setting them up, but probably worth it as I bet they've never been checked before.
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BX 17RD MK1 - it called to me!
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