1.9D economy on cold runs......

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JayW
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by JayW »

The larger tank, achieved by the additional tank inside the rear wing (the main tanks remain the same) were fitted to the TD's, GTi's, 16V's and (i believe) 19i models. There was no specific date for the introduction of the extra tank.

I have also read of a 40-something litre tank fitted to either the 1100 or 1400.
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by Kitch »

abbott wrote:My 1st 1.9 n/a with 100+K miles did low 30,s when i 1st had her, I had the injectors reconditioned and 48+ MPG was achieved straight away, quite expensive to do but well worth it.
I'm going to need to run it for quite a while to make that worthwhile though!
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by barry badger »

I ran a 19rd estate for over 12 years and 200,000 miles, the worst it did on fuel was 37mpg when it was flogged to within an inch of its life.
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by MULLEY »

Kitch, do you know anyone who has a small ultrasonic cleaner that you could try bathing the injectors in (i've got one but i'm miles away from you :(, never done injectors but i've done all sorts of rust car parts in & its superb), if they have gunge/carbon deposits & the spray pattern is crap, that might be why the fuel consumption is so low, alternatively try using some biodiesel as a 50/50 mix with normal derv, that stuff is great for cleaning up injectors :) or you may find as you rack up the miles they naturally clean up anyway & your mpg improves over time.

Wouldnt an oil change possibly help, if you've got very old oil it gets sooted up & causes more friction than new oil?
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by Kitch »

MULLEY wrote:Kitch, do you know anyone who has a small ultrasonic cleaner that you could try bathing the injectors in (i've got one but i'm miles away from you :(, never done injectors but i've done all sorts of rust car parts in & its superb), if they have gunge/carbon deposits & the spray pattern is crap, that might be why the fuel consumption is so low, alternatively try using some biodiesel as a 50/50 mix with normal derv, that stuff is great for cleaning up injectors :) or you may find as you rack up the miles they naturally clean up anyway & your mpg improves over time.

Wouldn't an oil change possibly help, if you've got very old oil it gets sooted up & causes more friction than new oil?
I might be able to find someone who's got one, but surely if my injectors were the issue the engine would be strangled for power, which I've already found that it's not. If anything it's kicking out slightly more than quoted, with a smooth power curve and no flat spots. That all suggests an efficient engine, which dodgey injectors would not produce.

I think the oil change wouldn't make any difference worth noting. I'll do one anyway as it's due, but I can't see that making a difference. Sure the old oil is sooted up, but not to the point it'll cause enough friction to reduce the engine's power; I think I'd have some pretty loud bearings if that were the case! New oil is also thicker than old, so when you consider that too the chances of the oil being the issue are nil really. Plus the fact I've already found it's kicking out 76bhp on the rollers :lol:

I just had this theory that the short journeys are killing the economy. The Picasso HDi I've got can average 55mpg on mixed driving in the summer months, but would drop severely to about 40-42 if I did this run everyday. Being that the XUD isn't as good on fuel as the HDi, I thought maybe managing the crap 30's figures I've been getting might be offset if it did a run but climbing to 45mph....maybe even 50 if I drove slowly.
Thing is if it's no good with the fuel on the journey I'm doing, it's pointless me running it. I don't mind the lack of pace, but ONLY if it's producing a decent return on fuel. I could nearly get 30mpg out of the 16v doing this stuff. :lol:
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by BX Bandit »

When was the dyno run done Kitch? And how many miles has the ar done since she was resurrected recently? If you're only putting 10 litres in at a time you could still have a quantity of old fuel running around which won't help, diesel does go off.

If the dyno run was done before the resurrection then you can't rule out injector probs or even a pump issue. Also the fuel filter mate, could be bunged up to buggery. I just cleaned out an old filter housing yesterday and it was full of crap, the filter had disintegrated a tad.
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by kiwi »

Might seem a wild one but are your calculations correct?

One gripe I had about fuelly was its calculations and mine did not add up a couple of times, no idea why but mine was easier to cheack and correct. Next question is how accurate id your speedometer/odometer. I found that could cause discrepancies after using the garmin GPS logging features.

Other than that soeone stealing your fuel
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by Dollywobbler »

I've never got any less than 40mpg out of an NA diesel, and I don't hang about. Even thrashing around the Welsh mountains I'd find it'd typically do 48mpg.

As for the cooling fan - nigh on impossible to get it to run on an NA diesel most of the time. Traffic jams on a motorway in summer might do it but if you just start the car and leave it, it's hard to get it warm enough to run the fan.

I also feel that your calculations are just too vague. If you're not going click-to-click, then you don't really have an accurate idea of fuel use. I've tried doing calculations based on guesswork and they've been mostly unbelievable (something you take to doing when you own a car with an 80+litre fuel tank that you don't want to fill!)

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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by MULLEY »

As you've said Kitch, the dyno run kinda confirms that the injectors must be working well under load because its being thrashed, is it possible that if the injectors are slightly gummed up at low revs it just uses way too much fuel?? The other theory is that your mpg calcs are just wrong, when all areas of the cars potential problem areas have been given the clean bill of health, then the only thing left that it can be is that you can't add up ;) Brimming the tank will give you an accurate figure when you re-fill again.
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by Kitch »

Fuelly's doing the calcs mate, not me.

I don't want to brim it because I'll treble the value of the car!
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by MULLEY »

Kitch wrote:Fuelly's doing the calcs mate, not me.

I don't want to brim it because I'll treble the value of the car!

But your putting the figures in for fuelly to give you a result, now if your figures are wrong then fuelly will be wrong as well.

The only accurate way is to brim the tank, set the odometer to zero, then at some point re-fill the tank again & then you'll know how many litres you put in & how many miles you did via your odometer. Putting 10 litres in & then guessing when you've used the 10 litres up just because the low fuel warning light comes on is going to give you an inaccurate figure imho.

I always brim the tank as i can't be arsed putting £20 quid in every week, i'd rather spend my time doing more interesting things :)
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by kiwi »

Kitch wrote:Fuelly's doing the calcs mate, not me.

I don't want to brim it because I'll treble the value of the car!
You answered my point =D>

Irrelevant if your going to treble the value of your car because your going to use that fuel. Mulley is right on the money with this.
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by Kitch »

MULLEY wrote:
Kitch wrote:Fuelly's doing the calcs mate, not me.

I don't want to brim it because I'll treble the value of the car!

But your putting the figures in for fuelly to give you a result, now if your figures are wrong then fuelly will be wrong as well.

The only accurate way is to brim the tank, set the odometer to zero, then at some point re-fill the tank again & then you'll know how many litres you put in & how many miles you did via your odometer. Putting 10 litres in & then guessing when you've used the 10 litres up just because the low fuel warning light comes on is going to give you an inaccurate figure imho.

I always brim the tank as i can't be arsed putting £20 quid in every week, i'd rather spend my time doing more interesting things :)
Have you considered the possibility not all of us can afford to brim the tank in one hit?

I agree brim to brim is the most accurate way to record the MPG, but on a series of top ups this is accurate enough for me. I also refill at the same points each time and over the course of a load of 20L top ups the average I'll end up with will likely only be 2 or 3 mile per gallon out of touch, or even less.

To be honest, thanks for the advice but I'm happy to leave it be when people start suggesting I cannot fucking add up.
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by Kitch »

kiwi wrote:
Kitch wrote:Fuelly's doing the calcs mate, not me.

I don't want to brim it because I'll treble the value of the car!
You answered my point =D>

Irrelevant if your going to treble the value of your car because your going to use that fuel. Mulley is right on the money with this.
See above, only without the thanks for advice.
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by MULLEY »

I wasn't trying to come across as though you can't add up, so apologies if it came across like that. I was just trying to get across the point that there is no way you can get any accuracy of mpg by doing it any other way than what myself & kiwi have said.

I must be lucky because when my low level warning light comes on, i can always safely get another 100 miles out of the tank without running out of fuel, but i only know this because i fill the tank up & have consistently been checking the odometer readings for the last few years & the low fuel warning light always seems to come on around the 600-620 mile mark so i always know when i've got to re-fill the bugger up again.
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