1.9D economy on cold runs......

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citsncycles
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by citsncycles »

Does it smoke at all, for example on pulling away after being stood ticking over for a while? When my series 1 was last on the road it would pull really well, but if it was left on tickover, or driven on a light throttle at low engine speeds, it would start smoking as it was over fuelling due to worn injectors.

Even at it's worst Timex still did 40mpg!
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by Kitch »

Brian wrote:Teaching most to suck eggs:

As a general rule of thumb, if you have a rev counter, the most economical rpm is 2k.

When cruising, lift the throttle pedal slightly, so as to maintain same speed.

Does make a difference.
Yup, agreed there.

And if you own a Picasso, feather the brakes when you're not on the power. Just enough to activate the brake lights; it cuts the fuel to the engine and boosts economy by about 10mpg :lol:

It's not an accident I manage to get it into the 50's around town. It's currently on 57mpg, but it's very temp dependant (hence my original post); in the winter it'll struggle to better 44mpg, even with all the tricks deployed.

I'm in the pro-DW10 camp. With the Bosch setup, the 2.0HDi is a bloody lovely engine. Mine's only a 90 is standard, but a couple of quid later and it's pushing 120bhp with 205lbft @ 1900rpm. It torque steers too :lol:

That engine in a BX would be epic.
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by Kitch »

citsncycles wrote:Does it smoke at all, for example on pulling away after being stood ticking over for a while? When my series 1 was last on the road it would pull really well, but if it was left on tickover, or driven on a light throttle at low engine speeds, it would start smoking as it was over fuelling due to worn injectors.

Even at it's worst Timex still did 40mpg!
No it smokes amazingly little. Like I say, every indication is that the engine is running perfectly.

I've filled it up today. Made a note of the mileage at the first point the light didn't go out under braking (87.7 miles) which is the marker I always use, which worked out at 39.something. So my average is still 40mpg, but I've now filled it up which surprised me at only costing £59, or 40L. I thought the tank was bigger than that, even accounting for the odd 5L that might be left in there.

Anyway I'll run it for a few days and brim it again. I won't wait until it's all gone as that'll be several months yet!
I still say that although not a perfect measurement, my method has been the same I've always used and for an average of a period of time it gives a close enough reading. Who's to say the pump will click at the exactly the same point, and what if I can't get to the same pump? There could be plenty of scope for error there too. All I know is I'm now lugging an extra 30L of fuel around that I don't need, and 30L of diesel isn't exactly something you could carry in a paper bag.

We'll wait and see :)
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by MULLEY »

Strange that you could only put in 40 litres after the low fuel warning light was on, perhaps you've got the smaller tank? Or an over active low fuel warning light, mine comes on when i've done over 600 miles & i always know that i can get another 100 miles out of the car safely. When i usually fill up its between 58-62 litres, so there isn't much left in the tank, haha....

My best effort was with my TZD Turbo, i miscalculated the fuel economy & on the way home from work, noticed that the car was surging a bit & then on a flat bit of road the car was gradually losing speed even though i was pressing the throttle harder, so a bit of weaving coughed the car back into life, & then reduced my speed to 50mph & i was tickling the throttle, no throttle on the downhill bits, gently swung into Tesco's petrol station & managed to put in 65.5 litres, oh dear :)
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by Kitch »

Oh I know it doesn't have the twin-tank. That was only fitted to TD, 16v and GTi models AFAIK. Seemed to remember the little one being 50L or so, and the twin being 66L or summit.
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by MULLEY »

Aha, sounds about right then, approx 10 litres left, if its consistent then you'll always be safe in the knowledge that you could do 40-50 miles & never run out :) The winter does reduce fuel consumption quite a bit, i presume its because the engine doesn't get upto temperature as quickly & i guess because its mechanical fuel injection its a lot more inefficient than modern electronic cars can do? So i can imagine getting about 40mpg, i still seem to average around the 50mpg mark, but my run is 20 miles each way. I think'd i'd prefer crap economy with a much smaller journey, it would save me a fortune in fuel, i'm basically filling up approx every 3 weeks :(
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by Mothman »

I believe all BXs got the 66 litre tanks after 1991 or thereabouts. My 1990 TGS has the 52 litre jobbie but really needs the bigger tank. Wonder if its an easy retro fit as i have a spare one from the 92 TXD scrapper?

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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by Kitch »

Mine's an '89 so that might be true, not sure. No need for it though.....I've covered 200 or so miles since I got it back on the road and rarely put more than £20 in a car at a time.
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by kiwi »

Kitch wrote: It's not an accident I manage to get it into the 50's around town. It's currently on 57mpg, but it's very temp dependant (hence my original post); in the winter it'll struggle to better 44mpg, even with all the tricks deployed.
Due to colder weather the diesel fuel thickens plus you are running at lower temperatures so fuel burns less efficantly even with additives, just had a hot summer here and the economy was much better than winter and pretty much same trips done daily.

I got myself one those Garmin Nuvi GPS thingys that has a economy calculator on it. Last couple times forgot to check the litres it claimed against the litres I used. I went from the official fuel consumption figures when I set it up. Endevoured to have it running at all times for accuracy, we shall see next fill up.
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by Thread Bear »

Coming in late on this one. Total feul economy is a product of so many things it comes down to a well maintained car. Each minor fault adds to drag or poor engine performance. It is all anal stuff, you know most of it, and oft times cannot be bothered to do the little jobs this weekend and so on. We all do it.
Chucking out useless crap from the car, removing roof bars etc do make a difference, as does knowing when the car will run out of feul. Feed me lights can be very missleading, Buster, the 3 axle service barge puts its light on then you have got 10 miles left, handy! My old BX it was about 100 miles. So once the true level of panic is known you fill up with what you need rather than drag the extra weight round.
Tyres I find make a great difference. Good tyres at the right pressure win over four differing cheapos and perm any kind of none flat looking tyre pressures approach. The BX hides crap wheel performance by the very nature of its suspension and it is easy to have a low tyre, as it will compensate. Likewise it will for knacked rear arm bearings until they in an appalling state. Any other car would be undrivable.
The biggy though is keeping off the loud pedal. My old knackered, over quater of a million mile, 1.7 TD Estate could still return 55 mpg on a run driven carefully. It was pretty gutless, smoked like a battleship if kicked down, but it was set up beautifully. I found that 10% bio made it run better. Maybe it does aid keeping the injectors clean? Supermarket and cheapo grade deisel made a huge difference to driving comfort and economy - to the extent there was no saving, I found. That stuff f***s your car up and if your on Lucas you have my condolancies.
Now I cannot comment on specifics of a BX with n/a but with the T/D I found the trick was to nudge it just over 2000 revs. Use your street craft to have the turbo ready for accelerating and then gear to revs again. At 2000 revs the turbo is not really doing anything. 2500 revs its just a slight whistle. Use the handling of the BX on cornering, its is a small car (narrow) these days, and cornering speeds can be high, as it has space, great brakes and predictable handling, as it is not on Carlos Fandago sized tyres, fly be wire or weird electronic take over programes nor is it as wide as the Queen Mary's backside. Keeping my momentum, learned from years of driving Messerschmitt bubblecars and Saab. If the tyres are not sqeaking you can normally get a bit more out of them. I learn my regular routes so I can pace the car right. Braking costs fuel.
Clearly a n/a will not drive like that, for reserve power, and it will be the disadvantage over the TD but unless the turbo is not really working on the TD the n/a should be better on feul ecomomy over a week. I had Pug 205s and while they are brill if you just clog it Italian style they are so much more effcient if you use roadcraft and feather the throttle a bit. The a to b times are not really greatly different. Not as much fun. I admit I have gone further the other way and can be awarded the feathered trilby, at times, but that's access to gain the 55 mpg from a TD Estate.
The BX has the capabilities of being a very quick car. It is somewhat akin to the Saab 96 Bullnose (two stroke) I have in that its underpowered, but is well balanced. So ignoring the Gti, which has power, most BX are underpowered like the Saab. You nearly have to have you foot planted on the throttle at all times to find max times across country. It costs feul though. I like cars like that, they are fun. And boy can you not upset the wibberly wobbly moderns in your naff old Citroen as they struggle to keep up. What insurance are you paying????? Get a BX.
Rather drifted from the brief but the potential is there for economy and a good blast depending on the conditions. Pre winter is a good time to do all filters and clean the fliuds delevery systems up. Everything takes longer to warm up and to flow so the least restriction the better. But cold, demanding, short road runs are the worst for economy. Especially if the car has no excuse for a good run over the period to clear itself out. Its just like us, they do not want to be doing it.
Being anal again, I change the oil and filter at half service times anyway. Better reasonable price clean oil than expensive dirty stuff. The cars love it. Bangernomics is not the art of not spending money, its the art of knowing when to spend it. It also, for me, means several months setting the next car up, with the expectation of several years ownership. If I picked right I do not have to buy any expensive bits, save a bomb nor do I need look for a replacement car all the time. But then my hobby is the older cars as BX are my moderns. Anything later is pretty much crap as far as I am concerned. Do you have to different to own a BX?
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by Kitch »

Found out the weight of the magazines I had in the boot was 127kg :oops: So essentially I've been carrying a fat man around in the boot, which when you've got next to no power in the first place may not be helping! :lol:

I'm not 100% sure this'll have such a huge effect on the economy (it would probably make it better once you're on the moved, especially down hills) but it'll be interesting to see.
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by MULLEY »

Impressive :lol: :lol: It probably will make 1-2mpg i reckon in summer & a bit more in winter, thats a fair old amount of weight.
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by kiwi »

I always remember listening to the Formula 1 coverage in Brazil! Martin Brundle saying about the 800m above sea level of the race track sucking 10% of the power. Not that you have that problem in the UK.
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by DavidRutherford »

Hmm..

I get the feeling your dyno session is lulling you into a false sense of security about the engine.

My money would be on slightly retarted injection timing. If the timing is even just a fraction late on an XUD, power output is not really affected, but the economy will be quite badly down. I had a TD with exactly this issue a good few years ago: damn thing would barely do 35mpg with all the tricks in the book. Checked the timing, and it was definitely a bit late. Advanced the timing slightly, and the power was identical but the economy jumped to 44mpg. What was most noticeable was there there was more diesel "clatter" at idle and when revved. Before the engine sounded very smooth, and afterwards it sounded somewhat "harder".

If your cambelt needs doing, that won't help either, as if the belt has stretched even just a teeny tiny bit, that will retard the timing.

New belt on, and check the timing. Requires a dial test indicator, and is a bit of a pain of a process, but well worth it.
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by Thread Bear »

Makes sense. Another reason to change belt and pump, of that lump. Mine I mean.
Miguel - 16 TRS Auto S, light blue, 43k miles - £450
Pluto - 14 E S, White, 105k Miles - in work
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Homer - 19 TXD E, Red, 189k miles - £250
Gary - 17 TZD Turbo E, 118k miles - in work

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