1.9D economy on cold runs......

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Dollywobbler
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by Dollywobbler »

I'm quite keen to try an NA again, after a good chunk of time with turbo power. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.

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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by Mothman »

Just been into Tun Wells with the TZD, not been driving it much of late. Gave it a hammering as you do and its a dream to drive compared the the N/A diesels. For performance the N/As dont come near.

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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by Kitch »

I think I enjoy the N/A more than the turbos. The turbos seem to have this laggy spot which you have to throttle through to get the turbo going, and once it does get going they're not always as swift as you think they're going to be.
The N/A just gives you flat, linear power. The BX 1.9D also has short gearing, which makes cog swapping more fun than in a TD. In fact banging through the gears in the N/A is almost as good as doing the same in a tiny engined, short gearing petrol car, the only difference being that you only rev to around 2500rpm at most (I'm guessing, I only have a clock....which doesn't work) rather than revving until the valves come out and dance on the bonnet (as with the 16v).

This all said, I'm immediately regretting my decision to brim the tank. Today, having covered 48miles for the week, I decided to brim it again to see what my 48 miles cost. I was assuming 5 litres would be about right.....it took 9.88! :roll: So clearly, even though I used the same pump and the same three clicks as last time, it can't have been brimmed properly last week. Which means my figures are all a load of shite! That said, I've still entered it into fuelly just in case it really has dropped to 22mpg!

If it has, I'll just stop driving it - I sold my MG because it was only doing 20mpg, and that had a V6 soundtrack and 175bhp! :lol:
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by Thread Bear »

Of course you get more fuel in given space in a cold period than a warmer one, as the diesel expands. A %ile to add to you calculations!
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by DavidRutherford »

Kitch wrote:Truth be told the thought of pump timing did enter my head (because it entered my head after the surprisingly good dyno performance). I wasn't sure what sort of an effect it could have on economy, and the economy was always up in the 40s (even 50s a couple of times) way back when it was last on the road.
It also runs very smoothly - less clatter than many XUDs I've heard, but put this down to the previous owners' 3000mile oil services.

I don't have any first-hand experience, but I'm not convinced by the 'belt stretching' notion too much. If the timing was that precise, you'd have proper stepped timing pins wouldn't you? And if a belt stretched to the point it affected the timing, surely you'd be on a one-way ticket to Bentvalvetown? Because if it stretched that much, surely it would run off the end of the tensioner pulley?
The XUD doesn't have stepped timing pins or a vernier pulley or anything clever like that, but it does have slotted mounting holes for the injection pump, allowing some very tiny changes to the injection timing.

If a belt did have a tiny amount of slack in it, (and by slack, I mean "not quite as tight as it should be") it would affect the injection timing waaay before you went to bentvalvetown. The cam timing can be many degrees out and the engine still run fine, and not come anywhere near to collision. The injection timing, on the other hand, needs to be perfect. Even just a degree out will knock the economy.

The fact that it has less diesel clatter than other XUD's does seem to hint at timing being late. Checking it's not a massive job, especially on a N/A as there's nothing in the way.. you need a DTI (Dial test indicator) and the tdc timing pin tool. I can't remember the exact figures as it's been years since I worked on XUD's in anger, but the procedure is in the HBOL, and took me about 30-40 mins on a TD.
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by MULLEY »

I just don't believe that your'e only getting 22mpg, even in the Turbo i got 36mpg when i was booting it at every opportunity & at the lights was leaving a trail of smoke. Now if i was driving the mini then yes i could believe 22mpg, it is supercharged afterall ;)
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by Kitch »

I don't think I'm getting 22mpg either. I think my tank didn't fill properly last time which reassured me straight away that going brim to brim isn't as conclusive as you'd think.
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by MULLEY »

When you fill it up so that some spills out of the fuel filler, then you know its been brimmed, haha...I reckon you're getting low 40's, which may improve as you drive the car more (running in after a long spell of no use?) & perhaps do some hypermiling techniques over time. I actually quite enjoy the challenge to drive the car as quickly as i can without using too many revs.

It always pisses me off that in a 50 zone idiots will be doing 40, then as i slow down in the 30 zone they continue doing 40, aaaaarghhhhh!!! At least i know i'm saving fuel, possibly a life if some idiot runs in front of me & i'll avoid a speeding fine with the mobile camera vans that are around my area. There are a few benefits to driving a bit slower & it does make journeys a bit more relaxing as it doesn't feel like you are racing to get to some destination. Still requires concentration though as you have to think ahead even more, but you soon get used to it. Even on motorways i rarely have to speed up or slow down, i can keep a constant speed up by carefully looking ahead & behind to see what i'm catching up & whats catching me up, that saves an awful lot of fuel.
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by Thread Bear »

Do you want to share my feathered trilby of old farty driving there Mulley? But I know exactly what you are getting at. Its an alternative challenge to driving fast etc. One payoff is to be so well adjusted and positioned you can make these knob heads look really incompetent when they cock up, regally bypass them and mark one up on the sunvisor to roadcraft.
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by kiwi »

MULLEY wrote:When you fill it up so that some spills out of the fuel filler, then you know its been brimmed, haha...I reckon you're getting low 40's, which may improve as you drive the car more (running in after a long spell of no use?) & perhaps do some hypermiling techniques over time. I actually quite enjoy the challenge to drive the car as quickly as i can without using too many revs.

It always pisses me off that in a 50 zone idiots will be doing 40, then as i slow down in the 30 zone they continue doing 40, aaaaarghhhhh!!! At least i know i'm saving fuel, possibly a life if some idiot runs in front of me & i'll avoid a speeding fine with the mobile camera vans that are around my area. There are a few benefits to driving a bit slower & it does make journeys a bit more relaxing as it doesn't feel like you are racing to get to some destination. Still requires concentration though as you have to think ahead even more, but you soon get used to it. Even on motorways i rarely have to speed up or slow down, i can keep a constant speed up by carefully looking ahead & behind to see what i'm catching up & whats catching me up, that saves an awful lot of fuel.
My rev counter dont work so for me driving to the revs waste of time. Then again I also drive large diesels and the foot planted to the ground is often the only way the things will move even at crusie pace when theres a long uphill drag. MY daily commute involves a large 200m climb over a mile basically 20kms from 450m to 830m. Cars got more guts on the return trip for some odd reason :wink:

So pretty much its 100kph speedlimit outside my door to destination, happy enough to crank it up to 90 kph (GPS speed) within the first few ks without dropping gears and planting it. When I hit that hill speedo drops like a stone 3 gear if pushed. No high speed attack on the hill because of a crossroads not makes much differance one point is just a diesel power killer no matter what you drive.

From this I tend to get 10 to 11 miles per litre, yea confuse you having a UK Odometer in the car. I dont worry about the other idiots just push it up to 100kph and anywhere else they wont get passed me on the route (unless have a death wish) until they get to that hill. Little point trying then!

Compared to the recently revitalised TRS economy works out about 5km per litre on the diesel! cost wise becomes complicated with no tax at the pump but a road user fee of 5cents per km plus nearly an extra 50% to the vehicle licence fee. TBH between the two driving same route day in day out I dont really notice the differance. The petrol sounds like its revs are to high in comparison although at ideal the diesel sounds like a noisey tank and no stealth mode.
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

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Thread Bear wrote:Do you want to share my feathered trilby of old farty driving there Mulley? But I know exactly what you are getting at. Its an alternative challenge to driving fast etc. One payoff is to be so well adjusted and positioned you can make these knob heads look really incompetent when they cock up, regally bypass them and mark one up on the sunvisor to roadcraft.
I regularly catch up the drivers who speed past me on the A61, i usually don't slow down too much for the roundabout & then make sure i'm in a lane that isn't queing & nip into the correct lane whilst the others have raced ahead, only to be behind me later on :lol: :lol:

Same with the motorway, if the traffic is heavy i usually end up catching the speeders up, as i keep a constant speed & then in the nearside & middle lanes are usually going faster than the outside lane, i choose my opportune moment to pull into the outside lane to overtake the slow coaches who are holding things up, back across into the slow lane & i've left the speedsters behind, all done with no change in my overall speed, makes me smile everytime :D
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by Dollywobbler »

Kitch wrote:I think I enjoy the N/A more than the turbos. The turbos seem to have this laggy spot which you have to throttle through to get the turbo going, and once it does get going they're not always as swift as you think they're going to be.
The N/A just gives you flat, linear power. The BX 1.9D also has short gearing, which makes cog swapping more fun than in a TD. In fact banging through the gears in the N/A is almost as good as doing the same in a tiny engined, short gearing petrol car, the only difference being that you only rev to around 2500rpm at most (I'm guessing, I only have a clock....which doesn't work) rather than revving until the valves come out and dance on the bonnet (as with the 16v).
That sounds about right, though I'd usually nudge 3000rpm in my NA. I was having a nightmare trying to keep my TD on boost today, largely because I've been driving a Disco Tdi for a few days, which is incredibly un-laggy, with the turbo kicking in strongly from about 1500rpm. The BX doesn't wake up until 2000rpm. Mix in taller gearing and it means more gearchanges are necessary. In an NA diesel, I can drive uphill front town pretty much all the way in fifth gear, but need to drop to fourth several times in the TD.

Give me six months in an NA and I'll be going on about how much I miss the extra power and the quieter cruising at motorway speeds...

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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by MULLEY »

I think both engines are great, but they are quite different. I must admit that when i took my wife & her pals to the airport years ago when my turbo was on the road, i was surprised at how little all the extra weight of passengers & luggage made to the performance, the turbo seemed to have plenty of grunt, couldn't say the same about the n/a, but at least that will rev easily though, its just noisier compared to the turbo & its a bit higher geared for the motorway which makes it a better long distance car, but i do like my n/a though.
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by citsncycles »

Not tried a Turbo, but saw plenty leave me on hills in Scotland! As for Timex I've somehow managed to build an economy machine:

Dursley to Wigton, mostly 65-70mph on motorways, with 9 miles of motorway one end and 15 miles of fun at the other, followed by a trip to Carlisle the next day to top up with fuel = 50mpg!

Managed similar figures going up to wherever I filled up in Scotland (about 50 miles short of John O Groats).

Then twisty roads, climbs, occasional high speed dashes plus some foot to floor acceleration while travelling across the top of Scotland and down to Skye, finally filling up at some port in Skye to find I'd managed 54mpg!

All with an engine built to the early, less powerful spec!
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Re: 1.9D economy on cold runs......

Post by Kitch »

Well, just to confuse matters more (or not hopefully) I brimmed it again today. Last time I acheive a woeful figure, which I put down to the tank not actually being brimmed, even though it clicked 3 times with a fairly long pause in between to allow fuel to get down the neck.

This time, 59 miles and I could only squeeze another 5.33 litres in, which works out at just a snippet over 50mpg! Almost seems too good to be true (probably find the pump has cut too early again) but I'd love for that to be right! I don't rag it around; in fact I drive quite slowly in it (you can't go fast, so why rag it trying?)

I'll get another 60miles under the belt and try again. It only ever does the same journey every day, (actually takes a week and a half to cover 60miles!) so we'll see what's what.

My hope is that 50mpg is right, and that the first two are down to all the testing/idling running it was doing just after I recommissioned it. Now that it's got four narrower tyres on it, and no car mags in the boot, I'm hoping for 50mpg or near to it next time too. The only bummer is the last false reading is dragging the average down to the 36-odd it's showing on Fuelly now, but I want to cover my mileage in it so I need to leave it on there. Once I've got the next reading I might take an average and apply it to that to give me more accurate cost per mile figures.
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