Tyres - a headache!

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citsncycles
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Re: Tyres - a headache!

Post by citsncycles »

A lot of the budget tyres for BX's are mud and snows. I read an article last winter on the different tyre types, and the main comment about mud and snows was that they could have any sort of compound from summer to winter, although many were closer to the latter.

I've never used winter tyres yet, but have found that either mud and snows, or in the case of cars like the GS or Dyane a more traditional tread pattern do work better than a modern car with wide, low profile, high performance tyres.

With Fred and Timex both using the same type wheels, I'm tempted to get a set of winter tyres on Fred's wheels so that I can swap wheels between the 2 depending on when each is being used. Mitch has Xantia wheels on at the moment, which will not fit the other 2 as well, but I've not decided what to do regarding tyres at the moment.
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MULLEY
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Re: Tyres - a headache!

Post by MULLEY »

Another way to put the winter tyre debate, has anyone ever heard of anyone saying that their winter tyres were crap & that their summer tyres were better? Nope, i haven't either ;)
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Re: Tyres - a headache!

Post by kiwi »

I have not read all the posts here so this is my point of view only.

Currently on my TXD I have Mud and Snow on the rear and through the couple occasions I have used them in the snow they have not been that good! Either with snowchains fitted to the front or not. That saying not had that many wintery days this year to really push them. What I do find is more grip has a slight advantage over less grip no matter what tyre but thats obvious, under 4mm your pushing it in the winter months in my opinion.

What you may not know is that New Zealand effectively outlawed snow tyres after a spat of serious crashes caused by imported Japanese cars with snow tyres on them and lack of knowledge plus higher summer temperatures resulting in mixed tyres and failures. Temperatures above 8c winter tyres afford less grip especially in the wet. So the legislators decided that instead of a full ban which for myself and others who make a living out of winter driving to the ski areas they decided to implement that if you got snow tyres you must have 4 all with the same tread pattern/make etc and the kicker was the tread depth no more than 4mm compared to 1.5mm for standards. Given a new tyre standard is 8mm and most snow tyres are imported used you can understand the effect.

Maybe next winter I may try a set of M&S on the front for those rare occasions I can drive a snowy road without a chain restriction for being a 2wd or because Highways close the road at the first snow flake. On saying that we all tend to avoid driving at night on the roads if there is a snow or ice risk.

But in the UK you do grit your roads with avengance so why do you need winter tyres?
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Re: Tyres - a headache!

Post by MULLEY »

Gritting doesn't work is the simplistic answer, when the temperature gets to a certain low level (can't remember what it is), the salt effectively freezes & can't do its thing. Also grit only seems to work when its put down before any snow arrives, if they put it on top of the snow which is already on the road &the snow is a certain thickness, it doesn't seem to do much. Winter tyres (not m&s one's) aren't just designed to work in the snow, its when the temperatures get below an ambient air temperature of 7 degrees & below, they have much more grip than summer tyres. I think everyone seems to get hung up on just the snow, its also the temperature.
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Re: Tyres - a headache!

Post by BX Bandit »

Think it's that below -7 deg C the salt has no action. Not that cold really, and a narrow window of use, perfect for the uk or course and our steel horses!
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Re: Tyres - a headache!

Post by MULLEY »

That sounds about right, its not quite as cold as you imagine that the grit/salt would stop working. I'm fairly sure that in Switzerland, they don't use grit at all, they clear the snow with a plough & everyone has winter tyres, so no issues in the winter at all.

I remember one occassion when i was watching my dad in the cx drive down the hill from our flat which is a side road onto the main road, it was very icy, abs was pumping away & i just saw dad slowly slither down the hill with the brake lights on & just carry gently over the T junction & nudge into the kerb. All in a straight line & no damage done, & luckily no one was coming up or down the main road. Dad turned the car around & continued on his journey. When he got back home, i asked him what had happened (bare in mind that Dad has a lot of experience in these types of conditions), he said that this was the 1st time that the abs was permanently on & the car just continued to gently slide down the hill. I asked him why didn't he just steer the way he wanted to go when he reached the junction, he said that he just totally forgot that with the abs on, that technically he could have just gently steered the car instead of going straight on into the kerb. He said he'd remember that next time if it happened again :)
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Re: Tyres - a headache!

Post by citsncycles »

I know a few people that have been caught out with ABS and snow & ice. They just can't get their head round the fact that ABS is not a cure-all for poor braking conditions.
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Re: Tyres - a headache!

Post by Tinkley »

Must admit I understood the freezing point of a typical gritted road was -4° C and always look for the tell tale slight crytal formation. The worst is freezing rain when you can't even stay on your feet trying to walk on the 'flat', fortunately pretty rare.

This link gives sea water freezing point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seawater" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Tyres - a headache!

Post by MULLEY »

citsncycles wrote:I know a few people that have been caught out with ABS and snow & ice. They just can't get their head round the fact that ABS is not a cure-all for poor braking conditions.
Interestingly enough, most cars can stop quicker on the snow without ABS, you will lock up but the weight transfers to the front of the car & the tyre digs into the snow causing it stop quicker. Can ABS actually be switched off in modern cars?
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Re: Tyres - a headache!

Post by Tinkley »

ABS does not work on the '09 C4 under 5mph. Fresh snow has 'grip' relatively that's why I've got away with it on a motorcycle quite a bit. Once it is polished ice well, forget it on two wheels though your feet give you 4 point stability.

I believe a number of cars allow you to manually turn off traction control, ESP, and ABS but it probably is not the 'cheapos'. If you have enough tread depth on the front you will grip the snow better, so that makes a lot of physical sense.

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Re: Tyres - a headache!

Post by MULLEY »

I don't think any ABS system works at those low speeds, so whilst you may be able to shed some speed off with an abs equipped car & you may be able to steer around the problem, it won't stop as quickly as a non abs one. You're spot on about the fresh snow, i regularly drive on it to avoid the tramlines created by the other cars which squish the snow & then it turns into polished ice. I know you can turn off traction control, stability control & various other systems, but i don't know whether there is the facility to turn off the abs? I'll have to check the manual for our new car to see if its possible or not. It may be something that a dealer knows how to do, but isn't advertised because they don't want the public to turn off a safety feature??
2002 C5 2.0 HDI Estate - Jasmine - Now SORN
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Re: Tyres - a headache!

Post by Tinkley »

Safety feature?... :lol: yeeaah for those that don't know how to drive...or brake properly. Real problem is people assume it (ABS) will get them out of trouble. Well try it on 2" of wet leaves, cow shit, etc on the roads.... I'm glad I rode so many miles on 2 wheels. It taught me a lot about road conditions, grip, temperature changes etc. As usual it is anticipation and awareness of conditions And stuff around you which is the true test of driving any vehicle, along with being aware of what you are driving. A tractor with 13 people in a fully grape laden trailer on a slanted wet clay slope is a bit different to a perfect 28° C day crossing the Appenines on 2 wheels!. Yes I have done both.

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Re: Tyres - a headache!

Post by Thread Bear »

Clearly it was the wrong sort of cow shit and leaves. Back to work

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Tidy cows round your way if they wad and wipe. Its a clever trick.

Timely thread with winter arriving at the loftier climes of the country.
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