Dynoings....Friday 29th evening

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citsncycles
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Re: Dynoings....Friday 29th evening

Post by citsncycles »

Yep, thanks again for an entertaining and informative evening. Timex's power and torque curves were comically bad, with both curves actually dropping between 2600 and 2800. Power is down, but torque was way above the factory figures - Kitch recons the cam is a TD one, so guess what I'm looking for! On the other hand, it's running really cleanly.

It was also interesting to see the others running, particularly Mat's - if Fred's engine is scrap, guess what I'm doing!
Mike Sims
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Re: Dynoings....Friday 29th evening

Post by Tinkley »

Thanks Kitch, good evening. I can verify that Mat's car did err, err, sort of leave a black cloud over Fareham..... :lol: Portsdown Hill vanished from view for some time....

Good to meet Mike, Hilary, and Mat too. My 1.6 topped at somewhere between 72-73 brake so nowhere near claimed but is that factory figure from the crank?. Still its enough on the road. Will try and sort the somewhat uneven take up low down 2,000 up to around 2,800 where it takes off smoothly. Probably a combination of carb + cap/rotor arm. How to tune the single choke atomisation might be fun.

At least it did not leave a trail of oil all over Kitch's nice rolling road... :lol: Timex seemed very clean, well done Mike. I missed seeing Hilary's 'run' but it sounded fine.

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Re: Dynoings....Friday 29th evening

Post by Kitch »

Tinkley wrote:Thanks Kitch, good evening. I can verify that Mat's car did err, err, sort of leave a black cloud over Fareham..... :lol: Portsdown Hill vanished from view for some time....

Good to meet Mike, Hilary, and Mat too. My 1.6 topped at somewhere between 72-73 brake so nowhere near claimed but is that factory figure from the crank?. Still its enough on the road. Will try and sort the somewhat uneven take up low down 2,000 up to around 2,800 where it takes off smoothly. Probably a combination of carb + cap/rotor arm. How to tune the single choke atomisation might be fun.

At least it did not leave a trail of oil all over Kitch's nice rolling road... :lol: Timex seemed very clean, well done Mike. I missed seeing Hilary's 'run' but it sounded fine.
Yes, it's a DIN corrected figure in the book.
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Re: Dynoings....Friday 29th evening

Post by mat_fenwick »

mat_fenwick wrote:Good fun!



The smoke isn't actually as bad as it looks, although I would hesitate to use the phrase 'pulls cleanly'...it mainly clears once the turbo spools up properly:



690 miles without missing a beat - now I'm off to bed!
Like a Muppet I hadn't noticed the videos were set to private so should work now! Cheers for the evening, just a shame you're so far away. With hindsight it would have been interesting to see what effect AC had on the figures.
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Re: Dynoings....Friday 29th evening

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What were everyone's readings then, you teasers ;)
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Re: Dynoings....Friday 29th evening

Post by mds141 »

I need to get the valver dyno'ed.
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Re: Dynoings....Friday 29th evening

Post by mat_fenwick »

I managed 114 bhp, which worked out as just over 100 bhp at the wheels. Happy with that :) Will post up graphs once I have a working computer again - had a HD failure on my laptop so writing this via a keyboard plugged intop my phone!
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Re: Dynoings....Friday 29th evening

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I'm not surprised, it felt pretty quick when i last drove it when you came over :).

As a comparison, our new clubman cooper d has the following stats 112 hp (82 kW) @ 4,000 rpm & 270 Nm @ 1,750-2,250 rpm & Flexibility 50-75 mph (4th/5th gear) = 7.9 / 9.7 s. It'll be interesting to compare against your car's other figures if they are available?
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Re: Dynoings....Friday 29th evening

Post by David »

..that_ Just looking at that makes me want a turbo engine for my car!
As if I haven't got enough to do on it already!
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Re: Dynoings....Friday 29th evening

Post by Tinkley »

Kitch reckoned no petrol BX get anywhere near claimed figures, 16v aside?. But one thing on the curve that might be of interest was the dip and lean running just where the 90kph (56 mph) fuel economy testing (of hte time) occurs. If other petrols exhibit the same trait it might be a factory tuned lean spot to get good figures for consumption at that speed. It is hardly unknown for manufacturers to err optimise things to make unrealistic economy claims!.... :lol:

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Re: Dynoings....Friday 29th evening

Post by Kitch »

Tinkley wrote:Kitch reckoned no petrol BX get anywhere near claimed figures, 16v aside?. But one thing on the curve that might be of interest was the dip and lean running just where the 90kph (56 mph) fuel economy testing (of hte time) occurs. If other petrols exhibit the same trait it might be a factory tuned lean spot to get good figures for consumption at that speed. It is hardly unknown for manufacturers to err optimise things to make unrealistic economy claims!.... :lol:
Other 8v XUs seem to struggle, but like I said, if they're carb-fed the tuning of the carb is normally all over the place. If you had one running as it was originally designed I should think it'd make the sort of numbers you'd expect. Have never had an injected XU 8v on before, but would think they'll fair much better, as carbs go out of tune as they're used....fuel injection doesn't, unless one of the sensors plays up.
Obviously all 16vs are more consistant because you can't get carb versions.

Only TUs I've tested are MPFI and they've all made more than quoted :lol:
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Re: Dynoings....Friday 29th evening

Post by Tim Leech »

I would offer anyone a run in my GT and see what you think, it pulls like a train! Quite agree though the biggest issue is the solex carb.
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Re: Dynoings....Friday 29th evening

Post by Tinkley »

Ah! but is there a definitive guide to tuning the Solex? I've been pretty careful with mine and it is stock done 120k new gasket, diaghrams, float , needle valve etc. All as set by factory or equivalent settings ie float height is correct. Only change was about 5 degree move on tamper proof screw to allow second choke to open correctly. Fuel pump is NOS, don't know what that cylindrical 'second' filter is on manifold with the 3 pipe (in, return, feed to carb) is called or whether that might be a problem?. Only real oddity is mixture screw, I turned it 6 full 360s' and it never bottomed, it is where it was when I got it! Emmissions of 0.15% Co (at MOT) mean it can't be far out. Bet there is no thread in carb body... my 14 had no idle jet I remember.... :lol:

Otherwise it is a bit tricky, the atomiser tube is set, only the accelerator pump could be twiddled I suspect but really it looks like it is more second choke time. Although I'm reasonably comfortable setting up m/cycle carbs with and without accelrator pump systems they are a bit different to the Solex. I do know these Pug engines can be tempermental about inlet manifold gasketing, sometimes more distance keeps the mixture cooler and thaey are supposed to run better for it. TBH the power curve was probably correct higher up, it is just that lower part that could be improved and maybe a few more horse power! I have the Dell'Orto handbook on carbs and that is excellent but doesn't cover the specifics of the Solex, though of course most principles are identical.

Would be worth a fiddle as it would be more economic as well as smoother. Motor runs OK in real world most of the time. I've never taken it over about 4,800 so that was its first time to 5,500rpm but it didn't moan. Any pointers to a good guide much appreciated.

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Re: Dynoings....Friday 29th evening

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What were everyone's readings then, you teasers
Timex managed 59.4hp (approx 62DIN) against a book figure of 65DIN, which wasn't too bad. It also developed an amazing 101lbs/ft torque, well above the book figure of just 88. The power losses of 12.1hp were also lowest Kitch had seen, although Mat's was almost as good.

This would all be great if it wasn't for both the torque and power curves - the torque falls off rapidly from about 2500rpm, recovering slightly from 2800 up to 3200 before a more normal tail off. The power also drops slightly from about 2500 to 2800, before again picking up again.

I think Jaba has an NA cam for me, so it'll be interesting to see what swapping that in does to the results.
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Re: Dynoings....Friday 29th evening

Post by hilarystone »

Thanks Kitch for Friday evening… It is really appreciated. My 16V with the Catscam stage 1 cam advanced 4° from standard produced 146bhp at the wheels which is the highest Kitch has seen but when converted to flywheel power was not really better than standard though the engines feels as if it really flys from 5000pm upwards. Its due for a service quite soon including plugs and that might make a difference – certainly fuel consumption has got worse over the last 600 miles - so there may be something amiss.
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