Value of bx 19tgd

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dolbero
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Re: Value of bx 19tgd

Post by dolbero »

Thanks for all the posts i'll try and get some pics up in a couple of weeks.

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Re: Value of bx 19tgd

Post by Kitch »

Paul296 wrote:
Kitch wrote:I'm not sure I get this "one owner and FSH" thing anyway. What if the owner was one of those nightmare types, who thinks they're looking after the car, but in fact isn't? (not that I'm suggesting that's the case with this TGD, it's hypothetical) At least if you've had a mixture of owners you stand more hope of one of them being any good with it. On the flip side, you stand more chance of having a careless owner - but that's my point; there's a flip side.
FSH on a car over 20 years old? Pointless IMO. Good for newer cars with value to them trying to retain a warranty or something, but I'd rather see evidence of care on older cars (photos on forums, it being a well-known car etc). I think (personally speaking) you'd have be certified to spend £2.5k or more on a TGD. That's not to knock TGDs in anyway, I just think being realistic about it you'd stand more chance of proving there is a god to me :lol:

Totally agree though - classic classified sites are free, and if it's really pretty then why not?! Give it a go and see what happens. My advice is just don't expect to get much more than a bag of sand for it. I'll be the first to congratulate the chap if he does :)
I agree, to most of us that have some experience of keeping older cars going, one previous owner and service history probably means diddly squat, but psychologically, for most prospective buyers it still counts for a lot - particularly if it's a car you're asking top money for. Sometimes I look at my incomplete service book with stamps missing and think, awww, it'd be so nice if it was all complete and stamped up (stroke, stroke) - I still know it makes f*** all difference in the real world though.

On a more theological note, would you like the ontological argument (with an attempt to resolve the Euthypro dilemma), the teleological argument, the cosmological argument (including its Kalam sophistication), the argument from fine tuning or the moral argument? Of course we would have to define our terms; how would we know what constituted a 'proof', and to what extent is the scientific method of empirical demonstration even a useful paradigm in this case? Last but by no means least what do we mean when we use the term 'God'? :)
Fair point, I suppose while in the real world the whole FSH thing means little, in the psychological world it may mean more.

Speaking of the real world - I mean can physically present me with a god of some sort. And I don't mean Matthew Le Tissier (though he is the closest thing I have).
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electrokid
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Re: Value of bx 19tgd

Post by electrokid »

Welcome to BXClub dolbero :-)

I'm of the opinion that FSH is quite important - if something turns out to need replacing then one can refer back to see if that part has been replaced before and have some idea if that part is being stressed by a related problem that needs dealing with: and I think it's a good indication of what might need doing in the future.

I think that a car that has done too few miles could have as many problems due to intermittant use as a car with high mileage: 76K sounds to me like regular but light use - just about right I'd say. I'd also suggest the classic car sites rather than eBay - and ask for top dollar from which you can come down from - if you only ask a grand then no-one is going to come along to buy it and offer you more than you're asking.
On a more theological note, would you like the ontological argument (with an attempt to resolve the Euthypro dilemma), the teleological argument, the cosmological argument (including its Kalam sophistication), the argument from fine tuning or the moral argument? Of course we would have to define our terms; how would we know what constituted a 'proof', and to what extent is the scientific method of empirical demonstration even a useful paradigm in this case? Last but by no means least what do we mean when we use the term 'God'?


Ontology...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6de ... ical_proof

is all well and good - but I'm sure there are simpler ways for us (?) simpler people or am I just thinking out loud from a simpler point of view :)
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Re: Value of bx 19tgd

Post by Paul296 »

The ontological argument in Anselm's most basic form is pretty straight forward. It goes something like, since it's possible to conceive of a perfect being (that of which nothing greater can be conceived), God exists in the understanding. Since He exists in the understanding He must exist in reality. That's it.

Personally, I don't think there's much to be gained from 'does God exist?' arguments because they're irresolvable. Although I suppose if you're Richard Dawkins you could argue that there's a substantial career and a shit load of cash to be made out of mixing popular science with bad theology.

The origin of the universe is the result of either an uncaused first cause (God), or something came form nothing, by chance, in a quantum vacuum. Both require an equal amount of credulity in my view; pay your money, make your choice. :)

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Re: Value of bx 19tgd

Post by Kitch »

Paul296 wrote:The ontological argument in Anselm's most basic form is pretty straight forward. It goes something like, since it's possible to conceive of a perfect being (that of which nothing greater can be conceived), God exists in the understanding. Since He exists in the understanding He must exist in reality. That's it.

Personally, I don't think there's much to be gained from 'does God exist?' arguments because they're irresolvable. Although I suppose if you're Richard Dawkins you could argue that there's a substantial career and a shit load of cash to be made out of mixing popular science with bad theology.

The origin of the universe is the result of either an uncaused first cause (God), or something came form nothing, by chance, in a quantum vacuum. Both require an equal amount of credulity in my view; pay your money, make your choice. :)
Hey, I wasn't trying to start up a genuine discussion on it - it was just a passing comment :lol:

I could concede that god exists, being that even if he was just in peoples' minds, the idea of a god still exists. Therefore, god exists (if that makes sense?)

But does he physically exist....as in, is everything written in a book in the desert thousands of years ago accurate? No, not to me. It'd have to be physically proven to me....and that's what I think somebody would stand little chance of. And that's before you decide which god out of the 2800 or so we're going for.

I'll scrub the god thing - I think somebody would stand more chance of making me like eating Vegetables than managing to get more than £2.5k for a TGD. Better? :lol:
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electrokid
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Re: Value of bx 19tgd

Post by electrokid »

Although I suppose if you're Richard Dawkins you could argue that there's a substantial career and a shit load of cash to be made out of mixing popular science with bad theology.
And if you're searching for the truth then ..that_ is pretty close 8)
Hey, I wasn't trying to start up a genuine discussion on it
Too late :lol:
I'll scrub the god thing - I think somebody would stand more chance of making me like eating Vegetables


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Re: Value of bx 19tgd

Post by Kitch »

I didn't realise I'd put a capital V for veg! Never stop to think about putting one in front of god though. It seems weird to put a capital in front of something fictional, yet not in front of nurse, or firefighter, or charity worker.

For example, I lifted this from some website:

God Created The World
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters.
So he created Earth, which we can see, and the heavens, which we can't. Right, ok. "The Earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters." Ok, but if there is water, there is form and void, as water can be seen to have carved the landscape we see today. And why does water have a face? And if it's dark, I'm assuming there are no stars? And being that we're made of the remains of matter from long-decayed stars, why did he take a rib to make a woman? And why are apples bad? Poor snake!
And God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. " And God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.
Ah, so now he's made a star to make the light. But it says he just made it, yet the sun is something that is going through a life cycle. It's been slowly getting bigger and will continue to do so until it swallows our planet and some of the surrounding ones. Then it will implode and it's game over. So when he decided to make light, did he decide how long the light was going to be on for? Maybe it's an energy saving light? And if he's come up with night, he's obviously made the planet start rotating. Howcome he hasn't mentioned it? Or the fact the planet is now orbiting this giant desk lamp of his? And the tilt, causing the seasons....that's a stroke of genius, that! Also, no mention of the moon....without the moon, we'd have no tides, among other things. With no currents and tides, it's already been proven we wouldn't exist. I'm amazed the chap who wrote this down in the book forgot to mention this. I'm sure god would have told him....seems pretty important. That said, the moon was likely formed when our planet collided with another, so maybe it was a bit of a cock-up and he was too embarrassed to mention it? Maybe he didn't want to lose his no-claims?

Maybe I should start using capital letters for god and he and stuff. He's clearly real and not at all fabricated by man. :idea:










Oh, what about dinosaurs........? :lol:
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Re: Value of bx 19tgd

Post by Defender110 »

Poor Dolbero , would he of asked the value of a TGD here if he had known it would lead to this /\ :shock: :roll:
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Re: Value of bx 19tgd

Post by Paul296 »

Kitch wrote:
Oh, what about dinosaurs........? :lol:
I don’t think that the Bible was ever meant as a sort of scientific text-book – it just doesn't deal with that kind of ‘truth’, which is why I'm happy to stick my neck out and hazard that creationists are probably bonkers, and that Darwinian evolution – in so far as we understand it – is a done deal.

But there are other kinds of truth; poetic truth, symbolic truth or metaphorical truth. For instance, you can say ‘the Moon is a ghostly galleon tossed on a cloudy sea’, or you can say, ‘the Moon is the only natural satellite of the Earth and has a geochemically distinct crust, mantle and core’. Which is ‘true’? Well they both are in a sense. One deals with verifiable geological facts and the other deals, poetically, with what you might call awe or the mystery of human experience. In general, most people feel that their experience as human beings adds up to far more than the basic physical facts; we all know 'how' a baby is born, but a thorough knowledge of female inter-uterine biology won't really account for the human experience of a baby being born; something else is going on.

Science is great at telling us ‘how’ things happen, but to try and address ‘why’ things happen probably requires a very different kind of orientation. I would say that the Bible and religious traditions in general, see themselves as at liberty to try and address ‘why’ kinds of questions; what is the meaning and purpose of everything? When we see a baby being born no one think it's merely a completely meaningless and purposeless biological event: we know - somehow - that such an event (if you'll pardon the pun) is pregnant with meaning. The Bible and religious traditions try to articulate what that meaning and purpose might be, of course whether they get it right or not is a completely different question.

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Re: Value of bx 19tgd

Post by Kitch »

Paul296 wrote:
Kitch wrote:
Oh, what about dinosaurs........? :lol:
I don’t think that the Bible was ever meant as a sort of scientific text-book – it just doesn't deal with that kind of ‘truth’, which is why I'm happy to stick my neck out and hazard that creationists are probably bonkers, and that Darwinian evolution – in so far as we understand it – is a done deal.

But there are other kinds of truth; poetic truth, symbolic truth or metaphorical truth. For instance, you can say ‘the Moon is a ghostly galleon tossed on a cloudy sea’, or you can say, ‘the Moon is the only natural satellite of the Earth and has a geochemically distinct crust, mantle and core’. Which is ‘true’? Well they both are in a sense. One deals with verifiable geological facts and the other deals, poetically, with what you might call awe or the mystery of human experience. In general, most people feel that their experience as human beings adds up to far more than the basic physical facts; we all know 'how' a baby is born, but a thorough knowledge of female inter-uterine biology won't really account for the human experience of a baby being born; something else is going on.

Science is great at telling us ‘how’ things happen, but to try and address ‘why’ things happen probably requires a very different kind of orientation. I would say that the Bible and religious traditions in general, see themselves as at liberty to try and address ‘why’ kinds of questions; what is the meaning and purpose of everything? When we see a baby being born no one think it's merely a completely meaningless and purposeless biological event: we know - somehow - that such an event (if you'll pardon the pun) is pregnant with meaning. The Bible and religious traditions try to articulate what that meaning and purpose might be, of course whether they get it right or not is a completely different question.
Paul, you're far too mature and worldly to be having this conversation with me! It only started off as an off the cuff comment, I wasn't trying to provoke a debate! But seeing how your mind works makes me happy that we agree on the relative value of a tidy BX TGD!
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Re: Value of bx 19tgd

Post by Paul296 »

Kitch wrote: Paul, you're far too mature and worldly to be having this conversation with me! It only started off as an off the cuff comment, I wasn't trying to provoke a debate! But seeing how your mind works makes me happy that we agree on the relative value of a tidy BX TGD!
You started it! (definitely a grands worth of car that. :) )

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Re: Value of bx 19tgd

Post by dolbero »

Ha ha ha much more interesting than talking about cars!

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electrokid
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Re: Value of bx 19tgd

Post by electrokid »

If we hadn't gone off at a tangent it wouldn't be BXClub :D
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Value of bx 19tgd

Post by Philip Chidlow »

Advertise for £1250 with a comprehensive ad (and nice pics) and be prepared to sell for £1100 on a nice day with the paint gleaming... :)

If I was buying though I'd still be mindful of the age and if I wouldn't feel relaxed about the possibility of forking out another few hundred if the fuel pump sprung a leak for instance, I wouldn't go over £950.

If it's an estate add 150 plus.


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Re: Value of bx 19tgd

Post by Dollywobbler »

electrokid wrote:If we hadn't gone off at a tangent it wouldn't be BXClub :D
Even by BXC standards, this topic tangent is impressive. Who said front-wheel drive cars are no good for drifting?