BX how safe?

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citsncycles
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Re: BX how safe?

Post by citsncycles »

Used to get it a lot with the Dyane & 2CV, and get it now with Timex - the funniest ones are those who pull out after I pass them but don't speed up, as if they believe the world will suddenly realise that my travelling faster than them is impossible and will suddenly correct this by slowing me down somehow!
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Re: BX how safe?

Post by Vanny »

Caffiend wrote:there's actually fewer deliberate twats out there than there seems. Most are accidental twats
And to build on that, as one of my advanced driving instructors pointed out, the over whelming majority of drivers aren't twats (deliberate or accidental).

If you obsess on them, you'll become one!

One of the greatest pieces of advice I've ever received for reducing stress while driving.

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Re: BX how safe?

Post by citsncycles »

Slightly OT, but I was filmed for an advanced motorcycle course a few years back near Blackpool. I was up there at a veteran cycle rally and was riding out on a quiet road to the pub on my boneshaker (wooden wheels, iron tyres, front wheel drive and plain bearings throughout) when I was passed on a bend at the bottom of a hill by a couple of motorbikes, who stopped at the top. Turned out it was an instructor and his pupil. The instructor explained to me that they instruct that cyclists should always be given plenty of space because as they have the right to an occasional wobble, whether it's because they're working hard on a hill, trying to dodge the potholes in the road, or whatever. When they came round the corner and saw me on the 'shaker, he decided it was the perfect example of what you may find unexpectedly on the road, and that if anyone had the right to wobble while riding it was the rider of such a fine machine!

A big part of the problems on the roads aren't so much down to bad driving skills, but to the intolerance of some drivers towards others. I know a couple of driving instructors who've have been in accidents on the job (so to speak), and they've all been impatient drivers running up the back of them.
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Re: BX how safe?

Post by Thread Bear »

Yep, always give bikes extra room. Might be anything in the road in front of them. Likewise motorcycles coming up to pass. I try to get the old leg out of thanks.
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Re: BX how safe?

Post by JayW »

Fook moi! An actual debate!

Just a few things i picked up on and my opinion...

Euro NCAP test are still voluntary, manufacturers are not required to do them, they'd just be stupid not to. They mostly hit 5 stars these days because they know exactly what the tests are and build in part to pass them. BUT, yes cars are considerably safer now than they once were. The voluntary aspect is exactly why the Aixam Microcar has never been tested, it's dangerous (and technically a quadricycle).

-

ABS is a lifesaver, but the ability to apply cadence braking in a car not fitted with it is equally so. I frequently have to use it down the back lanes where i live for all the idiots rounding corners in the middle of the road as the BX and Clio don't have it. I would howevr say, ABS is also not infallible and a degree of skill is also required to use it properly. Stamping on the brakes at in every situation is a bad way to use it (despite new drivers being told that this is the way).

For example, if you've got 2 wheels on a muddy/damp leafy surface and 2 on dry tarmac (such as driving down a narrow lane), stamp on your ABS and your near side will instantly lock and release (percussively), shifting all braking to your offside trying to stop the full weight of the car, in turn this doubles the force on these brakes causing them to try to lock, at which point they also start percussively braking. This significantly extends braking distances. The whole thing is like braking on wet grass and finding you've got milk-bottle tops for disks. EBD has gone some way to improving the issue but not by much! The main benefit to ABS is the ability to steer under braking and is exactly it's intended purpose, although it is a common misconception that it was originally intended to shorten stopping distances.

My experience tells me that on a DRY surface the friction of a locked tyre will beat ABS in a straight line (infact, i think there was a Top Gear test a few years ago to that effct too).

-

"Stupid" lorry drivers: I spent a few years in the workshop working alongside them and in the million or so miles they must have covered, not one of them ran a cyclist over! But, it does happen. I really wouldn't want to haul a 40' trailer with a 16' unit around knowing that i'm a 46' target for everyone while they're in their little 11' cars and 5' bikes! As very few truck drivers are wreckless morons, sadly the number of cyclists in that category is increasing, particularly the younger portion. I am sick to death of seeing cyclists flying around with earphones in their ears! Not just those little "bud" type ones either, but the full-size closed-back ones. Now that's moronic... and rife! I've had to dodge a few simply because thir too immersed in thir iPod to signal or look or STOP.
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Re: BX how safe?

Post by MULLEY »

One of the issues is when a new car hits an old car, the old car gets cream crackered because of the safety design of the modern car. I can't remember where i saw it, but there was a massive old car (possibly a merc) with a huge bonnet & some shitty modern MPV (Renault?) & tbh i thought the merc would come out best. The test was an offside head on (most common?), the shitty MPV cut right into the merc. Result was, the front passengers in the merc were unlikely to have survived, Renault, both survived with minor injuries sustained due to the amount of decelleration the body was subjected to. I was honestly surprised when i saw that. Still going to drive old cars though, coz i've got the skils ;)
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Re: BX how safe?

Post by JayW »

That was a Fifth Gear test a few years back, pretty sure the "Merc" was a 5 Series but should be on Youtube i'd have thought!
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Re: BX how safe?

Post by Jaba »

I recall (just) reading a report in Which on their crash tests round about 1990. This was before I had ever owned a BX. Their conclusion on car safety was that the larger the car the safer you were in an accident.
Concerning the BX it was rated as above average for safety compared with its contemporaries. They did mark it down for the under dash area above the dummy driver's knees as they were getting damaged in the frontal impact test.
It occurred to me that one way to avoid this would be to have the seat able to slide backwards when disaster happened. But this would be a move from passive to active safety and that was not going to appear in the mass market for a few more years.

I have observed that even though a quarter of adults smoke knowing that this will damage their health and shorten their lives the world is becoming very risk averse not to mention too litigation prone. Long live the dangerous BX...............
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Re: BX how safe?

Post by Kitch »

Jaba wrote:I recall (just) reading a report in Which on their crash tests round about 1990. This was before I had ever owned a BX. Their conclusion on car safety was that the larger the car the safer you were in an accident.
Concerning the BX it was rated as above average for safety compared with its contemporaries. They did mark it down for the under dash area above the dummy driver's knees as they were getting damaged in the frontal impact test.
It occurred to me that one way to avoid this would be to have the seat able to slide backwards when disaster happened. But this would be a move from passive to active safety and that was not going to appear in the mass market for a few more years.

I have observed that even though a quarter of adults smoke knowing that this will damage their health and shorten their lives the world is becoming very risk averse not to mention too litigation prone. Long live the dangerous BX...............
Well that's a fair point - if anyone on this thread has already contributed and said they wouldn't use the BX because of the safety aspect, but smokes......that's actually really funny :lol:
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Re: BX how safe?

Post by Thread Bear »

Jaba wrote: But this would be a move from passive to active safety .
Ooo. Does that mean ejector seats? I wanted one since I saw James Bond in Goldfinger. Grerat safety, as long as your not under a flyover or tunnel! Motorway pile up would be like a firework display.

Some of these guys do not need ejector seats. No laughing at the back.

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Re: BX how safe?

Post by Defender110 »

Kitch wrote:
Jaba wrote:I recall (just) reading a report in Which on their crash tests round about 1990. This was before I had ever owned a BX. Their conclusion on car safety was that the larger the car the safer you were in an accident.
Concerning the BX it was rated as above average for safety compared with its contemporaries. They did mark it down for the under dash area above the dummy driver's knees as they were getting damaged in the frontal impact test.
It occurred to me that one way to avoid this would be to have the seat able to slide backwards when disaster happened. But this would be a move from passive to active safety and that was not going to appear in the mass market for a few more years.

I have observed that even though a quarter of adults smoke knowing that this will damage their health and shorten their lives the world is becoming very risk averse not to mention too litigation prone. Long live the dangerous BX...............
Well that's a fair point - if anyone on this thread has already contributed and said they wouldn't use the BX because of the safety aspect, but smokes......that's actually really funny :lol:

Happy to say I managed to finally pack in smoking 10 years ago and still consider it to be one of my greatest achievements. Quite sad really that stopping doing something that kills you is perceived by me as a great achievement. :( :?
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Re: BX how safe?

Post by MULLEY »

I'll congratulate you on beating that filthy habit ;)
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Re: BX how safe?

Post by mat_fenwick »

I don't smoke although the car does...

Interesting thread. Lana often mentions she feels unsafe in the BX (although I didn't quiz her to see whether that was mainly down to my driving...) but it's not something I've given much thought to when solo. I guess that's because subconsciously I don't expect to crash therefore it's of no concern. The only real backward step with more current car designs that I can think of is (generally) poorer visibility due to thicker pillars etc, but I find myself adapting to that and waiting slightly longer at junctions to see if anybody appears from the A pillar blind spot.
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Re: BX how safe?

Post by Dollywobbler »

Does she feel unsafe because of the way you drive it? ;)

Rachel was quite happy driving around in an old Mini, which is about as unsafe as you can get. Or perhaps that's the 2CV. Either way, safety just doesn't seem to be the priority. We might have an unfortunate accident one day, or we might get ill. Or get attacked by a rabid sheep. I guess we're risk takers, but not excessively so. We don't ride motorbikes.

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Re: BX how safe?

Post by Tinkley »

Jaba wrote:I recall (just) reading a report in Which on their crash tests round about 1990. This was before I had ever owned a BX. Their conclusion on car safety was that the larger the car the safer you were in an accident.
Concerning the BX it was rated as above average for safety compared with its contemporaries. They did mark it down for the under dash area above the dummy driver's knees as they were getting damaged in the frontal impact test.
I can remember seeing that Which test. Not forgetting that a few years earlier they had the BX as their 'Best Buy'... and then a few years later said it was unsafe, unreliable etc etc. Like we should change cars with the seasons!.

Must admit I don't feel particularly unsafe in the BX, just know that almost anything else that hits you is likely to be quite a bit heavier. It would appear that 'Which' magazine are aiming at rubber surrounded tanks by the tone they adopted in the 90s' concerning car design. I even wrote to them about it, and got a rather pooh pooh reply.

As for brakes, I prefer the European 'feel' of most set ups and don't like the Japanese way of putting so much power assistance in stuff there is no feedback and everything is full on with little pressure. When in panic mode, it should not be a case of instant lock up. Also I don't know if this is taught by driving schools but sometimes the best way of avoiding an accident is the accelerator and hard too. On my bikes I have even dropped a gear with no clutch (no time) and belted out of trouble. My last accident in the BX could have been avoided if the other vehicle had accelerated (exit was clear) instead of panic stopping.