A non-sinking feeling...

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rutter123
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Re: A non-sinking feeling...

Post by rutter123 » Tue May 17, 2016 4:47 pm

All your return pipes are academic at this moment i dont think they will be causing your problem, they may be causing annoying little leaks but i guess your issue is more mechanical, most likely a failure of the h/c's, hyd pump or flow valve, have you tried changing the hyd pump as they can fail or run at low pressure? Even if your rear h/c is seized-seized in normal ride height position that is, there is no reason why the rear shouldnt lift, same for front unless both h/c's have failed internally (unlikely).
Have you tried purging the hyd pump?
Have you tried loosening the rear caliper bleed valves to see if lhm is present/ pressurised there?
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northernchap
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Re: A non-sinking feeling...

Post by northernchap » Tue May 17, 2016 7:36 pm

rutter123 wrote:All your return pipes are academic at this moment i dont think they will be causing your problem, they may be causing annoying little leaks but i guess your issue is more mechanical, most likely a failure of the h/c's, hyd pump or flow valve, have you tried changing the hyd pump as they can fail or run at low pressure? Even if your rear h/c is seized-seized in normal ride height position that is, there is no reason why the rear shouldnt lift, same for front unless both h/c's have failed internally (unlikely).
Have you tried purging the hyd pump?
Have you tried loosening the rear caliper bleed valves to see if lhm is present/ pressurised there?
Not tried purging the pump - do you just mean disconnecting the hose from the reservoir and draining it out? I can also look at the bleed valves next time I'm able to get out and look at it.
1992 BX17 TZD Turbo Diesel Estate [Red]
1988 Fiat Panda 4x4 [NATO green]
1991 Peugeot 309 GLD [Champagne beige]
1965 Ford Mustang [Black]

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ken newbold
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Re: A non-sinking feeling...

Post by ken newbold » Tue May 17, 2016 7:43 pm

The rear height corrector is sticking, the linkage to it and to the lever will need some lubrication, same to the front. The only other thing to mention, are the rear brakes free, this can cause the rear end to stick up or down.

If the PAS is working, then the pump is probably ok, PAS is the first thing to go when the pump goes wrong.
They think it's all over, it is now!

rutter123
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Re: A non-sinking feeling...

Post by rutter123 » Tue May 17, 2016 10:02 pm

By purging the pump you will need to disconnect the supply line from the res, at the pump find a suitable length of pipe a few feet long and fit it to the pump with a funnel or plastic bottle at the top, fill the pipe with fresh lhm and let the pump take the new fluid, it may be an idea to remove the pump first and let the old fluid drain out first. This method should expel any airlocks, not to say this will solve or cure your problems but its gonna be a process of elimation.
Another method that may work is start the engine sit with your foot on the brake sometimes this may get the back to lift.
90 BX Tzd turbo 294k SORN undergoing major surgery
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Dragon Man
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Re: A non-sinking feeling...

Post by Dragon Man » Sun May 22, 2016 11:20 pm

Small world NorthenChap ;) i never knew you had one of these??! i am after one of these so much i am thinking of selling project fallout! i dont think i could ever sell Talon though.

i am no BX expert but i have a little hydraulic knowledge.. i know that if the wrong fluid get put in some systems it can cause valves to stick preventing actuators from returning.. i wonder if that has happened to yours?
- JohnDragonMan

Drives: a classic Panda 4x4 called Project Fallout
classic Panda 4x4 Sisley named Talon
broken BX Diesel Estate in silver that's currently for sale.

Fix it Again Tomorrow. no special tools needed, always able to fix it! :)

northernchap
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Re: A non-sinking feeling...

Post by northernchap » Mon May 23, 2016 11:13 am

Ha, welcome mate! I have only had a BX for a few weeks, although I used to have a GTi about 14 years ago. If I ever get it going I'll bob down with your Panda exhaust and you can have a go in it, see what you think!

[sorry BX people, you're being invaded by the Panda 4x4 crew!] :)

Anyway, at the weekend I stripped off the reservoir and cleaned it and the filters with petrol, it was truly disgusting. I didn't get to test it as my collection of hose clamps appears to have taken a walk but I'll pick some more up today and try filling it with hydraflush later. This may not fix anything, but it certainly needed doing.

I know how much people like pictures so here are a few:

Label up before starting!

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Old fluid was... not so good:

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Guess this is the T piece mentioned earlier for the inner wing vent? It's missing a connection as guessed:

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Cleaned up:

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1992 BX17 TZD Turbo Diesel Estate [Red]
1988 Fiat Panda 4x4 [NATO green]
1991 Peugeot 309 GLD [Champagne beige]
1965 Ford Mustang [Black]

RobC
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Re: A non-sinking feeling...

Post by RobC » Mon May 23, 2016 11:42 am

That is absolutely vile. No wonder your system's behaving strangely.

Good work on the clean up though! Now fill her up with hydraflush and give it all a good bleed and workout. Fingers crossed no long term damage.
1991 Citroen BX 16v

northernchap
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Re: A non-sinking feeling...

Post by northernchap » Mon May 23, 2016 12:23 pm

Cheers! The only part I haven't done is bleed anything or release the pressure valve because I don't want the car to drop to the floor and stay there as I won't be able to get it round from the back of my house if it does. If it starts going up and down properly I can always flush it again later and do it properly.
1992 BX17 TZD Turbo Diesel Estate [Red]
1988 Fiat Panda 4x4 [NATO green]
1991 Peugeot 309 GLD [Champagne beige]
1965 Ford Mustang [Black]

rutter123
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Re: A non-sinking feeling...

Post by rutter123 » Mon May 23, 2016 1:06 pm

Thats a good start by having a proper clean up, next step is try to drain as much of the old "yuk" out as poss. i.e calipers, PAS, hyd pump, and as much out of the pipes as you can, this will give you a good head start. Only then add your Hydraflush and start to flush the system thru. Any air in the system can be expelled with the bleed valve on the pressure reg/flow valve and through the caliper bleed valves. If you can get the car up on blocks under the front wishbones and rear hubs (so each corner is under load as it were) with wheels off this will make the whole operation much easier. A certain amount of ingenuity Heath Robinson style may be required here using jacks and blocks not bricks.
90 BX Tzd turbo 294k SORN undergoing major surgery
90 BX Tzd turbo estate 46k awaiting surgery
65 Peugeot Boxer Van the new workhorse
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Re: A non-sinking feeling...

Post by Defender110 » Mon May 23, 2016 1:10 pm

Looks like some of those smoothies swambo keeps feeding me, great job of the clean up, take it you have access to a pressure washer?
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1987 Citroen BX MK1 diesel estate.(Currently in dry storage)
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northernchap
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Re: A non-sinking feeling...

Post by northernchap » Mon May 23, 2016 1:47 pm

Defender110 wrote:Looks like some of those smoothies swambo keeps feeding me, great job of the clean up, take it you have access to a pressure washer?
No, just used kitchen roll, a dishwashing brush, a thin paintbrush and petrol! Oh, and a riggers glove to stop me looking like I'd made some kind of suicide attempt on the sharp edges of the reservoir...

How much of a job is it to get the pump off? And will it go back on easily enough, do you need a fresh gasket or anything like that?
1992 BX17 TZD Turbo Diesel Estate [Red]
1988 Fiat Panda 4x4 [NATO green]
1991 Peugeot 309 GLD [Champagne beige]
1965 Ford Mustang [Black]

RobC
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Re: A non-sinking feeling...

Post by RobC » Mon May 23, 2016 3:05 pm

No need to remove the pump to flush it.

Remove the belt from the pump and also disconnect the rigid pipe - either at the pump end or the accumulator end. Use a funnel to fill up the rubber feed pipe with hydraflush, and set up a suitable receptacle to catch the flushed fluid. Then turn the pump by hand.

When you reconnect the rigid pipes you may need new seals - although I've done this on a number of occasions and not needed new seals, I think 'best practice' is always to replace the seals.
1991 Citroen BX 16v

rutter123
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Re: A non-sinking feeling...

Post by rutter123 » Mon May 23, 2016 3:41 pm

The pump is only held on by the sliding tensioner and a shanked bolt at the bottom, as /\ says a new seal on the metal pipe would be a smart move, when re-fitting make sure the belt is nice and tight. If you remove the rubber supply pipe from the res at the pump end get a container to catch excess fluid .
90 BX Tzd turbo 294k SORN undergoing major surgery
90 BX Tzd turbo estate 46k awaiting surgery
65 Peugeot Boxer Van the new workhorse
52 Toyota Rav4 180k Bulletproof Jap reliability

northernchap
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Re: A non-sinking feeling...

Post by northernchap » Fri May 27, 2016 5:05 pm

OK, quick update - I tried all I could but got nowhere so had to admit defeat and Ray from C&C came to collect it earlier in the week.

He's not got to the bottom of it yet but both height correctors were seized, however even with those freed off it's not getting any higher so he's going to swap the pump and the regulator to see if he can work out what's what. Fingers crossed...
1992 BX17 TZD Turbo Diesel Estate [Red]
1988 Fiat Panda 4x4 [NATO green]
1991 Peugeot 309 GLD [Champagne beige]
1965 Ford Mustang [Black]

rutter123
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Re: A non-sinking feeling...

Post by rutter123 » Fri May 27, 2016 5:56 pm

Strange that both height correctors should seize at same time, good luck with the diagnosis.
90 BX Tzd turbo 294k SORN undergoing major surgery
90 BX Tzd turbo estate 46k awaiting surgery
65 Peugeot Boxer Van the new workhorse
52 Toyota Rav4 180k Bulletproof Jap reliability