C'est Bleriot - 1987 17RD Hatchback

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panky
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Re: C'est Bleriot - 1987 17RD Hatchback

Post by panky »

AHHHHGGGG I feel you pain.
Try some heat on the stud with a blowtorch, a couple of heat cycles to get it to expand and contract and should hopefully help it to come free, try tightening it a little first then loosen. A good dose of Plusgas or similar release agent should help too - not WD40.
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vulgalour
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Re: C'est Bleriot - 1987 17RD Hatchback

Post by vulgalour »

Unfortunately no blow torch or non-WD40 in stock. Fortunately, progress happened when I was reminded I actually had a nut on the spare pump that I could use on my new pump...

Right then, some good news for once. Removing the nut from the spare pump wasn't too difficult once I figured out how to hold it to stop the nut just rotating the whole pump. Then I could fit the nut to the new pump and turn until the woodruff key slot was in the correct location, take the pump to the car, carefully align it and watch the pump rotate just a bit further than I wanted it to so I couldn't line it up properly, remove the pump, realign it, and repeat several times. It was... frustrating. It seems I stopped the pulley in a spot where the pump is halfway between each stroke or whatever it is that makes it clunk into one of the four spots of rotation. Eventually, I had it installed and had a mystery bolt left over that I've not identified yet.
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The other annoying issue was that as you put the pump in place it quickly obscures your line of sight for the slots and the only way I found I could see it and align it was to stand alongside the driver's side wing looking down and over the engine, it was quite uncomfortable.
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But finally I had it seated seemingly correctly and could start buttoning everything up.
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I've got most of the pump ancillaries connected now. None of it is particularly fun, access is unpleasant and a lot of it you have to do with spanners because you can't get in with sockets. It is a chore. With the majority of the pump installed I could then install the alternator. In the manual it suggests you leave the alternator connected but I couldn't get in at the lower bolt for the injection pump so opted to remove the alternator. The most annoying part of refitting the alternator isn't figuring out the convoluted path it must take past fuel and hydraulic lines, it's the one pivot bolt that there is no good access to. You can't put a socket on it because the chassis rail is too close so you have to use a spanner, and because of other bits of car in the way you can only get about a quarter of a turn at a time. The bolt is also about a mile long.
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Getting the auxiliary belt on is no better, I hooked it over the alternator before finishing doing up that ultra long bolt because I know it's going to be a pain later if I don't.
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Then I stopped for food and will likely finish this job off and do my best at timing the pump with the new dial indicator I bought tomorrow and, hopefully, it'll work.

In other news, I'm wondering how best to restore the front bumper which is badly scratched and gouged in places. It's textured self-coloured white(ish) plastic and I'd prefer not to paint it if I can get away with it, I just want to make some of this damage go away since it bugs me every time I clean the car.
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panky
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Re: C'est Bleriot - 1987 17RD Hatchback

Post by panky »

So close now. I think a set of ratchet spanners should be included on you Christmas/birthday list :wink:
You could try Milliput on the bumper. While it's still soft you could stipple it a bit to copy the bumper finish.
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Re: C'est Bleriot - 1987 17RD Hatchback

Post by Jaba »

Its a 21mm cranked ring spanner needed for that bolt. Always a pain.
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Re: C'est Bleriot - 1987 17RD Hatchback

Post by vulgalour »

Progress was made today, got the alternator fitted and the auxiliary belt tensioned which was faff due to rubbish access but not terrible.
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Then went through and reconnected and tightened everything as needed it with the exception of the three bolts hold the pump to the mounting plate, these need to be left loose so I can rotate the pump to set the timing, rather like a distributor, or at least that's how it reads in the instructions.
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With everything buttoned up and ready to time I got the dial indicator I'd bought out of its box and then found I need to order some probe extensions (or whatever they're properly called) since the one supplied is far too short. So, it's right on the verge of starting now, just got to wait for yet more tools to arrive. Here's the dial indicator next to the bolt you remove to check engine piston location so you can see the difference I'm talking about.
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Ah well, nearly there now. I still haven't discovered what that mystery bolt is for, it might not even be from the BX.

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Re: C'est Bleriot - 1987 17RD Hatchback

Post by TizzyD »

You're a better man than I. I can not for the life of me get that alternator pivot bolt undone. I haven't resorted to fire yet but I might at some point. I've got the right 21mm size socket and there is just enough space so I can get a ratchet on it but just not enough leverage with the car on the ground, I just end up pulling myself further underneath the front of the car when I try.

Still keep up the good work and hopefully you'll get that new pump sorted [-o<
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Re: C'est Bleriot - 1987 17RD Hatchback

Post by Tim Leech »

If you need extra leverage, if you have a trolley jack, slide the end of the jack handle over the rachet if you can.
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Jaba
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Re: C'est Bleriot - 1987 17RD Hatchback

Post by Jaba »

TizzyD wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:30 pm
You're a better man than I. I can not for the life of me get that alternator pivot bolt undone. I haven't resorted to fire yet but I might at some point. I've got the right 21mm size socket and there is just enough space so I can get a ratchet on it but just not enough leverage with the car on the ground, I just end up pulling myself further underneath the front of the car when I try.

Still keep up the good work and hopefully you'll get that new pump sorted [-o<
You have to undo it to change the alternator. I do it from above. It will fail one day...
Jaba wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:39 pm
Its a 21mm cranked ring spanner needed for that bolt. Always a pain.
The Joy of BX with just one Citroën to my name now. Will I sing Bye Bye to my GTI or will it be Till death us do part.

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Re: C'est Bleriot - 1987 17RD Hatchback

Post by TizzyD »

Tim Leech wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:05 pm
If you need extra leverage, if you have a trolley jack, slide the end of the jack handle over the rachet if you can.
Will have a look to see what I have to extend the length of the ratchet next time I have the energy and inclination to work on the car.
Jaba wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:19 pm
You have to undo it to change the alternator. I do it from above. It will fail one day...
I realise this, hence why I trying to get that pivot bolt undone as my alternator is on the way out. It's only putting out about 13.2v without a load on the system and about 12.8v when lights/radio/blower/rear demist are all running

The only upside of shielding for my parents health at the moment means I'm not driving the car much, gets the odd run out to keep fluids moving and what not.
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Re: C'est Bleriot - 1987 17RD Hatchback

Post by vulgalour »

I did the bolt from the top, it's really the only way I could see to do it. Does mean having to use a ring spanner, unfortunately, but once it cracks off it comes out fairly easily. Be sure to take all the tension out of the auxiliary belt too, any tension at all seems to put just enough stress on the bolt to bind it up.
----
Had another crack at the BX today to see if I could get the thing running. Carefully followed the instructions in the book right up until it came to turning the front wheel by hand with the car in gear. Annoyingly, with the car in any gear, the wheel just wouldn't turn, like something was locking it up. A bit of a think and a tap of the starter motor with a broom handle sorted it out, looks like the starter motor has taken to sticking lately. That done, I could rotate to the requisite point with the dial indicator.
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Now, I'm not sure if it's because I've not slept properly for a week so my brain is currently full of bad earths, or if it's just one of those jobs, but I found this to be an incredibly annoying thing to do. The magnetic base on the dial indicator is next to useless because all the magnetic surfaces are too far away from where I need to be, and all the flat surfaces close enough aren't magnetic. So trying to get a reliable reading of any sort on the dial indicator is pretty much impossible. In reading the manual it then turns out you need to leave the first dial indicator in place while you set up a second one for the pump which... well... I've only got one indicator and I cannot see how I'm supposed to set a second one up for the pump. So that puts us back to the alternative of 'move the pump about until it sounds about right' which is the route I'm likely going to go here. Get it running well enough and then get someone that knows what they're doing to fine tune it for me.

In an effort to see how far off it was I did try starting the car. It does now prime without the pump making weird noises, and in fact I couldn't hear any weird noises like it was making before, so hopefully that means the air leak has been cured. Unfortunately, the battery on the car is quite flat and the only other battery I have access to is too small to offer enough of a boost. Because of how the cars are set up at the moment and the fact both of them are currently sort of broken, I couldn't hook jump leads up either without expending effort and energy I didn't have on pushing cars about. Never mind, at least I've learned that things turn over freely, the starter motor may be on the way out, and nothing is leaking while the car is sat still and the engine is being cranked. I did notice the driver's side engine mount has a lot of movement in it, not ecause the bolts are loose, it just seems to be that the rubber is very soft so perhaps that's going to need replacing too.

Stuck the battery on charge and turned my attention to something else. I'd recently bought a Valeo original headlight adjuster to replace the broken one on the car. It's a very slightly different design than the original but is the same where it matters.
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To install it, I first needed to straighten out the hole it goes into. I also had to use the old collar since the new one seems to be just a tiny bit too thick, I can cure this by sanding the back of it down by about the thickness of one half of a birthday card. For now, old and new will do.
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Initially, the headlight sat quite badly, as I thought it might, because this corner has had something done to it in the past and something about the headlight surround is out of shape slightly.
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There are other weird alignment issues on the front. The subtle crease that goes down the centre front of bonnet, grille, and bumper, all line up. However, the black grille itself seems to sit too far over to the right by a little bit. I can centralise the grille and then the crease doesn't line up with anything so I'm not sure what that's about. I did some faffing about with a hammer and a pair of pliers and massaged the headlight mounting area until I'd got the fit improved as much as I could. It's not perfect, there's still something amiss about the bonnet or the wing that I can't pin down and everything is so flimsy it's difficult to get things to stay in place for very long once you've adjusted things.
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To celebrate, the passenger side headlight lens then fell off.
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Luckily I have a spare headlight and it happens to be the passenger side. On fitting the replacement headlight I noticed the lens on it too is loose on the bottom edge so that will likely fall off too soon. I'll have to get some sealant to glue the lenses back on again, recommendations welcome providing the sealant is white or clear. The front end is looking marginally better. I do need a new pair of indicators, both of mine have broken clips so they have a habit of popping out if you're not careful, at least they're easy to get hold of.
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This weekend I'll have another crack at starting the car with the battery charged and fiddling with the pump until my ears reckon it's about right, there's not a great deal else I can do about it other than that really.

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jamescarruthers
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Re: C'est Bleriot - 1987 17RD Hatchback

Post by jamescarruthers »

It's a BX rite of passage to brake hard and your headlight lenses fall out... you were so close! :-)

Good luck with the pump timing. Hope you have some easy miles ahead in this BX.
Last edited by jamescarruthers on Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: C'est Bleriot - 1987 17RD Hatchback

Post by Jaba »

Me too, I have seen the light !
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Re: C'est Bleriot - 1987 17RD Hatchback

Post by rutter123 »

You can set your timing by ear, providing the mechanical timing is correct. set it until its just off the diesel knock has gone-you will know when it sounds just right, tho rotating the pump can be tricky due to the metal pipework.
I tried the dial gauge route and gave up in the end it was too much faffing about.
If you start somewhere around the middle on the pump adjustment you won't be too far out either way.
Maybe crack the pipes off a quarter of a turn at the pump makes rotating it a bit easier and shouldn't cause any probs.
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Re: C'est Bleriot - 1987 17RD Hatchback

Post by vulgalour »

I've been trying to get the battery to accept a charge. First attempt did not go well, it didn't even make it to 50% before it was making an unpleasant fizzing noise. Battery wasn't getting hot or swelling or making bad smells, so I turned off the charger and left it alone. When charging a very flat battery, I've found my charger sometimes needs to take several stabs before it manages to do it properly. Sometimes the battery makes it, sometimes it doesn't.

So for the last couple of days I've been charging the battery for a bit until the battery does something it shouldn't - fizzing noise, or the indicator going white - and then leaving it alone for a few hours before trying again. Today, I got it as far as 75% charged, and the indicator is now green on the battery, but it doesn't seem to want to accept any more charge from the charger so it's likely the battery is past it.

I've put a new battery and a new starter motor on my shopping list for the time being. This is just normal old car nonsense really, it's irritating but it happens. On the plus side, priming the fuel system on the BX now doesn't generate the weird noises the pump was making before when I primed it, nor has diesel started weeping down from the pump or the engine block so I suspect whatever the air leak was, it was in the pump, and is hopefully now cured. Little victories, I suppose.

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Re: C'est Bleriot - 1987 17RD Hatchback

Post by panky »

Little victories eventually build up into one big one [-o<
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