Deltic's GTi Blog

Tell us about life with your BX, or indeed life in general!
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deltic
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Re: Deltic's GTi Blog

Post by deltic »

Jaba wrote:
Fri Nov 05, 2021 7:28 pm
Wow this is turning into trainspotters thread. I have no photos but I saw a Stanier Black 5 at Fort William in September but I am sure that is not a rare sight there.
Were the Deltics run from Euston Jonathon? If so then I saw them in regular use on the Glasgow trains.

Where I live we have recently lost our 125s in favour of some modern Hitachi tin and plastic with hard uncomfortable seats. Effing progress. The 125 still has the speed record for a diesel train and for me it is sorely missed.
Mind you I love my frequent train trips from London to Oulx using both Eurostar and TGV.
Over and out 4472.
Apologies to those not interested in trains… During the summer there are almost daily steam hauled tours from Fort William to Mallaig taking in the Harry Potter viaduct at Glenfinnan, so the Black 5 is not so rare. For those interested in seeing or travelling on steam workings on the mainline, see: http://railwayherald.com/railtours

As for Deltics unless you were lucky enough to see the prototype working out of Euston in the 1950s the 22 production Deltics all ran out of King’s Cross on the East Coast Mainline to Edinburgh eventually being replaced by 125s. I achieved my lifelong ambition to drive my favourite Deltic (55022, Royal Scots Grey) on the Severn Valley Railway back in 2017.

125s still work in the south west, cross country and Scotland and remain very impressive machines at speed. Not quite as impressive as a Deltic though! Comfortable, high speed train travel is still quite an experience.
1991 BX GTi auto, grey, 137,000 miles (2015, 2017 & 2019 Citroen Classic Challenge veteran)
1991 BX GTi auto, grey, 88,000 miles
2006 C4 VTR+ 2.0 Coupé, silver, 75,000 miles

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Re: Deltic's GTi Blog

Post by Fumbler »

deltic wrote:
Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:08 pm
Fumbler wrote:
Fri Nov 05, 2021 2:21 pm
deltic wrote:
Thu Nov 04, 2021 9:58 pm


Dungeness is a surreal place and again worth a visit. And of course there's the Romney Hythe & Dymchurch Railway.

Yes, the first flask trains for some time have been running again this summer and autumn, indeed I think that there was one yesterday. Some of the trains have been hauled by Direct Rail Services newish Class 88 bi-mode (or electro-diesel) locos. These are AC overhead electric locos fitted with a 950hp diesel engine, but odd to see them working on diesel power on DC third rail electrified lines in the south east.

If I recall correctly the Dungeness branch has a number of open level crossings, so I think line speed will be quite low, probably 25mph maximum. The Grain branch has several much heavier freight trains every day, so might be a bit higher. I have asked on a railway forum what the restrictions are.
I thought the locomotives I saw looked fairly new. I wonder if the trains only run of diesel down here because all the other freight stock I've seen does- the GBRf and EWS freight trains in Tonbridge yard are also diesel only.
You also will see a number of the venerable GBRf 73s at Tonbridge which were the original 1960s bi-mode locos able to run on diesel power or the third rail. They have proved to be very useful locos and a number have been rebuilt with more powerful engines, some of which are used to power sleeper trains in Scotland.
You learn something new every day!

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Re: Deltic's GTi Blog

Post by deltic »

They also work some of the south east RHTT (railhead treatment trains) or water cannons to get rid of leaves on the line.
1991 BX GTi auto, grey, 137,000 miles (2015, 2017 & 2019 Citroen Classic Challenge veteran)
1991 BX GTi auto, grey, 88,000 miles
2006 C4 VTR+ 2.0 Coupé, silver, 75,000 miles

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Re: Deltic's GTi Blog

Post by deltic »

deltic wrote:
Thu Nov 04, 2021 9:58 pm
Fumbler wrote:
Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:28 am
Dungeness site is where I work! Funnily enough, I saw 4 flasks being loaded onto a train last Thursday- the first I've seen in a year or two. I'm impressed that you can do a railtour down the freight only lines. Were you speed restricted or could you go full bore?
Dungeness is a surreal place and again worth a visit. And of course there's the Romney Hythe & Dymchurch Railway.

Yes, the first flask trains for some time have been running again this summer and autumn, indeed I think that there was one yesterday. Some of the trains have been hauled by Direct Rail Services newish Class 88 bi-mode (or electro-diesel) locos. These are AC overhead electric locos fitted with a 950hp diesel engine, but odd to see them working on diesel power on DC third rail electrified lines in the south east.

If I recall correctly the Dungeness branch has a number of open level crossings, so I think line speed will be quite low, probably 25mph maximum. The Grain branch has several much heavier freight trains every day, so might be a bit higher. I have asked on a railway forum what the restrictions are.
And to answer the question of speed limits a signalman acquaintance of mine has provided me with some information. Grain branch is largely 40mph and for Dungeness it's 20mph from Appledore to Lydd Town and then 15mph to Dungeness.
1991 BX GTi auto, grey, 137,000 miles (2015, 2017 & 2019 Citroen Classic Challenge veteran)
1991 BX GTi auto, grey, 88,000 miles
2006 C4 VTR+ 2.0 Coupé, silver, 75,000 miles

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Re: Deltic's GTi Blog

Post by deltic »

And three more photos for Fumbler all taken 10/11 year's ago:
_JM13241.JPG
_JM15938.JPG
_JM15945.JPG
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1991 BX GTi auto, grey, 137,000 miles (2015, 2017 & 2019 Citroen Classic Challenge veteran)
1991 BX GTi auto, grey, 88,000 miles
2006 C4 VTR+ 2.0 Coupé, silver, 75,000 miles

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Re: Deltic's GTi Blog

Post by Fumbler »

deltic wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:45 pm
And three more photos for Fumbler all taken 10/11 year's ago:ImageImageImage
Great pictures! That'll be the last set of fuel from Dungeness A. It was declared fuel free in summer 2012.

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Re: Deltic's GTi Blog

Post by deltic »

20211123_123120.jpg
Rather out of necessity rather than desire I've recently been having to use the BX to shuttle between Kent and Northumberland to help look after my mother. Storm Arwen and salty roads are far from ideal, nor was the parking ticket received from the Freeman Hospital welcomed either!

Unlike the Freeman, Hexham General Hospital takes a rather more relaxed approached to parking and here's the BX and Yang the cat who is a bit of a celebrity at the hospital. Yang's vehicles of choice are not Citroens but ambulances and their crews who are all too keen to feed him!
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1991 BX GTi auto, grey, 137,000 miles (2015, 2017 & 2019 Citroen Classic Challenge veteran)
1991 BX GTi auto, grey, 88,000 miles
2006 C4 VTR+ 2.0 Coupé, silver, 75,000 miles

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Re: Deltic's GTi Blog

Post by deltic »

Not really having driven a BX for any real distance since the 2019 Challenge, 300 mile motorway trips have proved less pleasant that I would have liked. Performance, ride, comfort and space are not an issue, rather the noise the BX makes, something I'm becoming less tolerant of as I'm getting older. And I can't hear the indicators! My first GTi wasn't particularly quiet at motorway speeds, but my new one is verging on uncomfortable. Strangely up to 60/65 it's relatively quiet, but, alas, on a long journey I'm not patient enough to drive that slowly.

Of course the various sources of noise are obvious: wind, tyres, exhaust, engine, inadequate soundproofing, door seals, etc. Additionally my car has deflectors on the front doors which add to the wind noise - has anyone any experience of these? Do they provide any real benefit like the sunroof deflector?

I think the real culprit here is the exhaust which at around 70 and above just gets too noisy with possibly a little resonance thrown in. There are no obvious holes or other issues. So my question can anyone recommend a quiet(er) exhaust? The Kwik-Fit exhaust on the other BX was definitely quieter.
1991 BX GTi auto, grey, 137,000 miles (2015, 2017 & 2019 Citroen Classic Challenge veteran)
1991 BX GTi auto, grey, 88,000 miles
2006 C4 VTR+ 2.0 Coupé, silver, 75,000 miles

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Re: Deltic's GTi Blog

Post by deltic »

Following on from the above and the suitability of the BX for long distance journeys, due to me tending to hang on to cars and not being able to afford or need newer cars my comparisons are fairly limited. However due to family being distant and me having to avoid train journeys due to Covid, I have made a lot of long trips up north over the last couple of years in the following:

C4. The majority of trips have been done in this and apart from the bouncy ride it is a safe, well equipped car with slightly different looks. Cruise control and dual climate control are obvious improvements over the BX and it can manage 40/42 MPG compared to the BX struggling to make 33-35 MPG.

Hyundai Coupe. Now departed, this was a bit of a mixed bag. With styling possibly derived from the Ferrari 456 to my eyes it was a very pretty car, well equipped and with a good sized boot. However underneath compared to the C4 it was quite dated, fuel consumption was barely better than the BX, the clutch was awful, hard ride, quite noisy and I found it almost impossible to get a comfortable driving position for my right leg. Nice gearbox and steering though - I only really once had the chance to put it through its paces over the twisty Hartside pass (between Alston and Penrith) and the car was transformed into something really quite nice to drive. It was quite well put together but with some cheap plastics in the wrong places like the steering wheel and leather seats that seem to wear really badly on every Hyundai Coupe.

Ford Transit van with only 400 miles on the clock. Very easy to break the speed limit on a motorway without realising it! Being diesel I managed 42mpg. Let down by the rear live axle giving a very bouncy, noisy ride.

Vauxhall Vivaro van. Easy to drive and with the advantage of cruise control and sliding doors both sides unlike the Transit. It's biggest issue was being unable to get the seat far enough back to be comfortable. I'm about 5'11", quite how anyone taller would manage I don't know. Apart from that I much preferred it to the Transit.

In the end they all did the job required of them, just wish the C4 had hydro-pneumatic suspension!
1991 BX GTi auto, grey, 137,000 miles (2015, 2017 & 2019 Citroen Classic Challenge veteran)
1991 BX GTi auto, grey, 88,000 miles
2006 C4 VTR+ 2.0 Coupé, silver, 75,000 miles

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Re: Deltic's GTi Blog

Post by white exec »

Our 2.5 XM provides long-legged speed and impressive silence, plus 42-43mpg on long journeys. Comfort probably about the best that Citroen (or anyone else) has ever produced, more recent models included.

Agree about the high-speed noise of BX. Later models (and diesels) got some extra protection, but still not what you would call quiet. The exhaust (on our diesel, at least) is quiet noticeable, even though it's in good condition and not leaky. The c.3000rpm at 75mph doesn't help (c.2200 on XM).

Some extra sound-proofing under the carpets, and taken upwards in the footwells, would probably help - and ditto in the very flat boot, which probably picks up tail-box noise.

A decently made stainless exhaust (eg the commendably solid and quiet systems from P.D.Gough - who will also customise for quietness) would be an improvement, albeit not a cheap one.

Induction roar is pretty well damped by standard BX fittings, but might be less so with some aftermarket stuff.

The relatively low gearing of BX doesn't help, which is where torquier and longer-legged models come in, particularly the turbo diesels.

Tyre noise can be minimised by using Michelin Energy Saver+, which are well matched to our hydropneumatic suspension.

Roll on electric . . . but where tyre noise can rise up the list of annoyance.

An interesting topic, for BX, which (as you say) in other respects scores rather well!
Chris

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Re: Deltic's GTi Blog

Post by Fumbler »

I've never thought the BX to be particularly noisy on motorway journies. Driving at 70 is rather civilised, despite the engine running in the high 3000 rev-range, and being a low spec model with little insulation, thinner metal and all season tyres, the wind noise, engine drone and road roar is tolerable and quiet.
Since fixing the fuelling issues I've had, the car's been returning a pretty consistent 43MPG which I'm very happy with.

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Re: Deltic's GTi Blog

Post by deltic »

I guess I have a lower tolerance threshold!
1991 BX GTi auto, grey, 137,000 miles (2015, 2017 & 2019 Citroen Classic Challenge veteran)
1991 BX GTi auto, grey, 88,000 miles
2006 C4 VTR+ 2.0 Coupé, silver, 75,000 miles

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Re: Deltic's GTi Blog

Post by Fumbler »

deltic wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:11 pm
I guess I have a lower tolerance threshold!
Could be! :wink: Although I completely forgot to add that I'm doing a back-to-back comparison with my K11 Micra.

However in comparison to the mk.1 V70 my dad has, there's no contest. That car is smooth and quiet as can be!

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Re: Deltic's GTi Blog

Post by deltic »

white exec wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:49 am

Some extra sound-proofing under the carpets, and taken upwards in the footwells, would probably help - and ditto in the very flat boot, which probably picks up tail-box noise.

The relatively low gearing of BX doesn't help, which is where torquier and longer-legged models come in, particularly the turbo diesels.

Tyre noise can be minimised by using Michelin Energy Saver+, which are well matched to our hydropneumatic suspension.

An interesting topic, for BX, which (as you say) in other respects scores rather well!
Some good points, especially about the boot floor where there is no insulation. Does make me wonder are there any (rust?!) holes I'm unaware of. Also given the ravages of time, rodents and sunroof leaks the soundproofing is in pretty poor condition.

Not sure of the relative RPM of manual and auto GTi at 70/75 but in the brief time that I once borrowed a 16v I found that revved even higher at 4000RPM, which I also found uncomfortable.

Obviously I have some work to do! As for tyres, I'm not too aware of much road noise, however the cheap tyres fitted to the car must go soonish. In my first GTi I rarely if ever spun the wheels, but on Saturday I found these spinning on some white markings on a relatively dry road and on occasions pulling out of junctions. Quite why the pervious owner skimped on tyres I don't know, but thanks for the recommendation. I've previously used Avon ZV7s which seemed fine.
1991 BX GTi auto, grey, 137,000 miles (2015, 2017 & 2019 Citroen Classic Challenge veteran)
1991 BX GTi auto, grey, 88,000 miles
2006 C4 VTR+ 2.0 Coupé, silver, 75,000 miles

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Re: Deltic's GTi Blog

Post by deltic »

Fumbler wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:16 pm
deltic wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:11 pm
I guess I have a lower tolerance threshold!
Could be! :wink: Although I completely forgot to add that I'm doing a back-to-back comparison with my K11 Micra.

However in comparison to the mk.1 V70 my dad has, there's no contest. That car is smooth and quiet as can be!
At least on the BX I can't hear the flapping rear bumper of the C4 :lol:
1991 BX GTi auto, grey, 137,000 miles (2015, 2017 & 2019 Citroen Classic Challenge veteran)
1991 BX GTi auto, grey, 88,000 miles
2006 C4 VTR+ 2.0 Coupé, silver, 75,000 miles