The techies on BX Club are number 1!

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:37 pm

Its possible that the thing is boiling due to heat soak when the engine is turned off - but I'd be a bit surprised with this on a K series as there is no surplus metal. (What happens is that the engine gets very hot - and heat accumulated in the metal continues to pass into the water. The more metal the greater the heat stored - no metal - no heat stored)

Fans running without a water pump just cool the water in the radiator and sound dramatic. - they won't cool the engine unless there is some circulation - except by passing air over the block - which can be enough in very cold conditions but is unlikely to be relevant here.

Strange problems I've had in the past - thin metal heater pipe from the water pump which rusted into a pinhole and would dump water when under pressure, same Renault - plastic elbows that just disintegrated, British water pumps that just decide that today is the day to dump the water, Jaguar XJ6 heater/aircon that would just dump water sometimes (cured with bars leaks)

I think the water pump is on the back of the engine and is exposed (unlike the XU ones which run in the block.) I'd have a good look at it, any hoses going to it (from the picture I've seen it looks like a rubber 'T' or 'Y' section which can split) and a metal pipe - which may corrode or more likely crack around a welded metal bracket.

I would also recommend reading the article King K under essays on the Austin Rover site http://www.austin-rover.co.uk/ particularily under fixing the problems when they deal with some of the cooling problems which apparently are due to the thermostat being in the wrong place on some installations like Freelanders. I don't know where the thermostat is on yours.

Were'nt some fitted with XUD's ?

Post by **docchevron** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:30 am

Hhmm, interesting! As such, when you shut an engine down the coolant ceases to circulate and therefore you get hot spots, which is why jet engines are always idled before shut down to allow consistant cooling.
This sounds like an air lock, is the rad getting hot all over? also worth checking all the hoses to make sure non are blocked or collapsing.

I came across this with a mates Dog (sorry, Rover!) a while ago in work. It took ages to find the leak because try as we might, we couldn't find it! It was the pump, sometimes it leaked, sometimes it didn't... The seal had given up but only leaked when the engine temp approached the point of the fans cutting in....

Cheers
Chris G

Geoffrey Gould · Post by **Geoffrey Gould** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:23 am

Hi there a couple of things spring to mind (spring??) that is :-

Air lock. When engine stops the temp will rise, heat soak, air will expand to the point where it pushes some water out.

Water pump. Could be as have been said they can leak when they feel like it, leak when stopped and seal when running is not unknown.

One point that no one has picked up on and that is, if I have read it right, the cap does not hold water ------- as all modern systems rely on being pressurised to raise the boiling point ( XM/BX some 20 psi.) so step one would be to buy a cap and make very sure that the system is bled. Sorry I dont know how.
The article on the "K" series engine is very interesting but possible to be drawn into all sorts of possibilities but this may be for later.

If you are worried about the head gasket then get the header tank "sniffed" with a gas analiser to detect combustion gasses. Dont think it's that.
Good luck. Cheers.
Geoff.

thanuttiscotsman · Post by **thanuttiscotsman** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:47 am

hi there,
well i would go with testing the head gasket. it is possible it has already been changed by an idiot who drove it for ages, knackered and warped the head. then possible he just slapped a new gasket on. so when you start and drive the car the engine heats and expands sealing the leak a little and on cooling gap opens up and the still hot pressurised water pee´s out. well one random possibility.

cheers rossco

Kitch · Post by **Kitch** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:26 pm

Water pump! I caught it leaking today on a test run. It leaks whether the engine is running or not, and is dribbling down the block onto a plastic loom casing, along that and then to the floor.....very cunning and it fooled me!

We did find that the rad is partially blocked too, so unblocked that and the cooling system seems happier, but it still sadly spewed out the cap when I got home as the fan kicked in. I had actually stopped that happening during the day, but alas it cam eback and got me. I can't for the life of me find any air in the system and there is only one bleed point. Its definately a weak point of that car, the whole cooling system.

So seeing as I'll be removing the timing belt to change the water pump, I figured I may aswell pull the whole head off and change the head gasket too with the uprated one. Probably even throw a new radiator in there too, maybe a diesel one if they're bigger? Have to see how much cash I have to my name

Many thanks to Tom who offered assistance throughout the day.

tim leech · Post by **tim leech** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:42 pm

You see its not just old Citroens that cost money! Think is kitch once its done its done mate and you wont be driving round watching the temp gauge like hawk!

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:57 pm

Doesn't the crank fall out if you remove the head on these? - as the head bolts hold the main bearing caps as well!

Loads of stuff in the article about plastic dowels etc - if you're going to take the head off it may be worth changing them or something.

Personally I wouldn't break the head joint until it fails.

Kitch · Post by **Kitch** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:11 pm

Thing is theres two sides to this;

If it ain't broke don't fix it....but it might break very soon. its certainly on the milage to suffer, and its had a few low level coolant issues recently. Plus it still plays silly buggers when its hot.

If I do change it, I won't need to worry about it. The new kits come with metal dowles, not placcy ones and a twin composit head gasket that Land Rover have redesigned.

Ideally I'd just do the water pump, but if the HG fails a few months down the line I'll have to pull the head off+ belt etc to do it again. Thats the other half of my thinking, I'd then have to buy a new belt etc.

Kitch · Post by **Kitch** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:12 pm

Oh and I did read the bolts go all the way through, but wasn't sure on the implications of removing them. I just thought it meant they went right to the bottom, didn't know they held the crank in too

tim leech · Post by **tim leech** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:17 pm

I dont think the crank falls out, ive seen hundreds of gaskets get done at my time at rover and never saw the sump come off from memory or the engine out. One mechanic was so practiced at it he could get it done in no time, thig is most of the time thats all he did!

Kitch I would bite the bullit and get it done, it will be a better car fter you have done it and piece of mind is worth the expense.

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:40 pm

This thing is made up of a stack of castings - bottom shells being one casting, wet liner (or something similar - seems no two the same) block, then the head and cam - all held together with long bolts. Use wrong bolts - bottom bearings collapse and squash crank apparently.

Best of luck with it. I'd still just change the water pump then decide if I really liked it enough to risk having to sort it out regularily.

Stewart (oily!) · Post by **Stewart (oily!)** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:41 pm

The trick seems to be to turn the engine over so that the timing marks line up BEFORE removing the head, though you will find that you may need to rotate at least one of the cams a little to get access to a headbolt hopefully by this time the belt will be off and the crank will not be disturbed.
Stewart

DLM · Post by **DLM** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:33 pm

Funnily enough, my BX is currently playing the water pump trick on me in exactly the same way. Luckily I did bother to read the whole read before jumping in with my Eureka moment....

Kitch · Post by **Kitch** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:28 pm

My 16v started doing it a week after I got it

Post by **docchevron** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:37 am

hhmm, you need to be a bit careful pulling the heads off these things.

If the gasket isn't blowing, frankly I'd leave it be. Fitting a new rad and pump, defo, if you're really worried about the gasket add some K seal to the system.
That said if you're confident then go for it, but from past experience, if you dont get it right, you could be causing more trouble than you're fixing if you pull the head......

Cheers
Chris G