engine oil

BX Tech talk
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m_2975
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
My Cars: 1989 BX 19TRI Estate
1993 BX GTI
1997 Xantia CT Turbo

Post by m_2975 »

Interesting Alan.

I might be eating my words all week but I've certainly never come across a DKZ engine that had bad or incorrectly installed rings. This comes from first hand experience on many BX's fitted with the DKZ engine. Even my BX 19TRI estate that's now done 311,000 hard kms hasn't needed to be touched. I've spoken to a number of ex Citroen dealers and we all scratch our heads as to how/why you've had to replace the rings. The bottom end is very strong and reliable. I was prompted to investigate after your last post which you mentioned above.

We did have a lot of BX's in under warranty for valve guides though, particularly the first lot of BX 19TRI-122's. The factory installed guides designed for leaded petrol and they subsided. Don't ask me why they did that when the cars came with Catalytic converters. We fixed all of them up (by way of a complete new head! Still have one here) and they never missed a beat again.

Maybe there were some idiots in the engine plant that managed to stuff that up too! :roll: :roll:
Last edited by m_2975 on Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
My Cars:
'93 BX 19GTi Sedan 5M
'89 BX 19TRI Estate 5M
'89 AX GT(With EFI) 2door 5M
In the Family:
'74 SM IE (Fully Restored) 5M
'90 BX 19TRI122 Sedan 4A
'02 Xantia Exclusive Sedan 4AA
'06 C5 2.2HDi Estate 6A

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AndersDK
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Post by AndersDK »

Found out why I insinuated that rubber should no longer be a topscorer for valve stem seals : the seals provided in a HG kit I have floating around are made of - tephlone :!:

Wether these are better/worse than their Viton competitors I have no idea.
C U / Anders - '90red16riBreak - '91GrisDolment16meteor - Project'88red19trsBreak
dead cars : '89white 16RS - '89antrasitTRDturboEst - '90white19triBreak

artic-steel
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Post by artic-steel »

My 16 petrol smokes horribly on the over run, a sure sign of valve seals, maybe her head will need too come off next spring, but at the moment it's not a major issue.

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docchevron
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Post by docchevron »

m_2975 wrote:Interesting Alan.

I might be eating my words all week but I've certainly never come across a DKZ engine that had bad or incorrectly installed rings.

We did have a lot of BX's in under warranty for valve stem seals though, particularly the first lot of BX 19TRI-122's. The factory installed stem seals designed for leaded petrol and they subsided. Don't ask me why they did that when the cars came with Catalytic converters. We fixed all of them up and they never missed a beat again.
I've found a few DKZ'a with the rings ar$e about face, so it wouldn't surprise me, and I know plenty of other people that have had the same experience.

As for valve stem seals being designed for leaded petrol?????
Does not compute.
Surely you mean that the valve guides were replaced. Valve stem seal's are not effected by what type of fuel is used.
And unless the Oz market had re-engineered engines then ALL XU petrol engines were designed to run unleaded as standard except the D6C which WAS designed for Leaded 98RON fuel only.
Smokes lots, because enough's enough already!

Far too many BX's, a bus, an ambulance a few trucks, not enough time and never enough cash...

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m_2975
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My Cars: 1989 BX 19TRI Estate
1993 BX GTI
1997 Xantia CT Turbo

Post by m_2975 »

Yeh Doc,

Sorry I meant to say valve guides. ](*,) ](*,)

Had one too many the other night....clearly

I don't know why but that was the excuse given to us.

All XU engines that were sold here up until December 1986 were designed for leaded petrol. They didn't run on unleaded. There were no cars imported here then in 1987, just old stock sold. The 1988 model year (which they all had build plates of 1986!!) had a new 108hp engine which was simply an EFI mod of what I would expect that the 19TRS had??

Now that I think about it it's a stupid excuse because it was the 1989/1990 model year that had the problem for us here. After that, in the TZI they fixed it.

I'm getting very confused. :roll:
My Cars:
'93 BX 19GTi Sedan 5M
'89 BX 19TRI Estate 5M
'89 AX GT(With EFI) 2door 5M
In the Family:
'74 SM IE (Fully Restored) 5M
'90 BX 19TRI122 Sedan 4A
'02 Xantia Exclusive Sedan 4AA
'06 C5 2.2HDi Estate 6A

AlanS
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Post by AlanS »

Sorry to drop you in it again Michael, but ours is a 92 build TZi.

The DKZ engine was used in the Tri 122 and the TZI as well as the Pug 205 GTi and this problem has been found in all of them.
It was a common problem with the DFZ in the Tri having worn valve stem seals, but not the 122 which had the DKZ engine and of the DKZs that didn't have the ring problem, many have big numbers on the clock and still don't use oil.
There seems to be another 2 I have found in Brisbane with this problem also. I should know more about them in the next week or two. I'll keep you posted.


Alan S
By the time you're old enough to know it all, you can't remember why you were learning.

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m_2975
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My Cars: 1989 BX 19TRI Estate
1993 BX GTI
1997 Xantia CT Turbo

Post by m_2975 »

I might be digging my own grave here and am definately sounding very stupid I know!

I know what im taking about. It's based on my own experience from being in a Citroen dealership. I respect that you have your own experience too. I know that we both seem to have opposite findings which is quite strange and this adds to the confusion.
I can only tell you what I know.


I must disagree about major valve guide problems in the TRI-108 (DFZ). There were a few but nothing like the head problems in the TRI-122 (DKZ).
AFAIK we had the problems on the TRI-122 and replaced many complete heads under warranty or definately under 80,000kms.
There were a few problems on the later TZI (DKZ) with the heads too, but nothing like the TRI-122. I know that they had the same engines but they did a few small changes to improve it.

They finally got it right on my 1993 TZI which has the very late timing belt tensioner and belt system that is fitted to the 8V Xantia series 1. It has 175,000kms and has never had the head off. It uses no oil.
My Cars:
'93 BX 19GTi Sedan 5M
'89 BX 19TRI Estate 5M
'89 AX GT(With EFI) 2door 5M
In the Family:
'74 SM IE (Fully Restored) 5M
'90 BX 19TRI122 Sedan 4A
'02 Xantia Exclusive Sedan 4AA
'06 C5 2.2HDi Estate 6A

AlanS
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Post by AlanS »

Michael, in all honesty, I think you need to go and have another talk to your grandfather (?) Marcel.

I'll lay odds you've got the models assaboutface based on all the complaints we've had over the years on this problem.
Sure there can be exceptions to the rules, but not in every case as you intimate.

As regards the tensioner; again, I must be missing something here as the tensioner we had in our TZi was the same as in our Xantia as well as the Tri which we also noted has also been in a few 16Trs engines we've also pulled apart. The belts are also the same from the 1.6 right up to the last of the 1.9 engines. The belt difference (one tooth IIRC) came about when they brought out the 2.0i engine as fitted to the Xantia or to a handful of BX I understand which were never brought to Australia.


Alan S
By the time you're old enough to know it all, you can't remember why you were learning.