Tims 1985 BX 19GT (Work in Progress)

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Matt H
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Post by Matt H » Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:06 am

Well firstly before I go way off topic... Tim, your car looks great...

I don't really want to get involved in some stupid debate over the legality of French style number plates, so all I'm going to say is that I know they are illegal... But thank you for pointing that out, because If I didn't know, I would most definitely want to.

Technically, the HiD headlight bulbs in my BX are illegal, but they are properly adjusted, and were put through the MoT headlight tester, and could not be failed, "actually a clearer beam pattern than halogen bulbs" were the testers exact words. Now I can see at night... nothing to do with the aesthetic appeal of xenons, I was given them for free, thought I'd try them out, and now couldn't go back.

Please don't tell me my number plates of headlights are illegal, again... I think we have already established that.
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M - I have to say that 505 looks ace... is it yours?

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docchevron
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Post by docchevron » Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:52 pm

Matt H wrote: Technically, the HiD headlight bulbs in my BX are illegal,
Erm, why?
Since BX's are self levelling whats the problem?
Smokes lots, because enough's enough already!

Far too many BX's, a bus, an ambulance a few trucks, not enough time and never enough cash...

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Matt H
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Post by Matt H » Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:25 pm

Yes... this is true, but the rule is 'No car with standard bulbs can be fitted with xenons'. Well last time I checked anyhow.

I guess it is to stop idiots, without self-levelling, fitting them incorrectly and blinding oncoming traffic.

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Post by mat_fenwick » Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:36 pm

docchevron1472 wrote: Since BX's are self levelling whats the problem?
I think you also have to have headlight washers too, but it's not too much of a problem to keep your lights clean is it?

Not trying to get into an argument here, as I'm not claiming to know the law...
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Post by Way2go » Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:48 pm

Fact sheet: Aftermarket HID headlamps
December 2006

In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to Xenon HID he must purchase completely new Xenon HID headlamps. The reason for this is that the existing lens and reflector are designed around a Halogen filament bulb, working to very precise tolerances. If one places a HID "burner" (bulb) in the headlamp, the beam pattern will not be correct, there will be glare in some places and not enough light in other places within the beam pattern.

The following is the legal rationale:

The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.
Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.

However new vehicles have HID headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the HID headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).

For the after market, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. However we feel that saying "HID is banned in the after market" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require HID in the after market to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.

Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the after market should:

1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.

2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).

3. Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.

In practice this means:

1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.

2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.

3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.

Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.

In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.

If you require any further information regarding the regulations covered by this fact sheet, please contact the DfT at the address below:

Transport Technology and Standards 6
Department for Transport
Zone 2/04
Great Minster House
76 Marsham Street
London
SW1P 4DR

Telephone: 020 7944 2078
Fax: 020 7944 2196
Email: TTS.enquiries@dft.gsi.gov.uk
1991 BX19GTi Auto

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Matt H
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Post by Matt H » Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:42 pm

Thanks, that basically confirms what has already been said.

To be fair, technology has moved on an awful lot in the last 3 years, and these HiD bulbs have been designed to work inside a halogen headlamp without distorting the beam and causing glare... which is the main concern with these.

I'm not saying they are legal, I'm saying they should be.
Last edited by Matt H on Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Aerodynamica » Mon Oct 13, 2008 5:25 pm

I find it interesting that they cite 'glare' as an issue when retrofitting a HID system.

Never a journey goes by where I'm not annoyed at some flickering or flashing lights in my rear mirror only to find they're not flashing but that the projecter type lights are coming in and out of focus as they go over bumps.

And so often modern cars with factory designed and fitted HIDs cast so much glare.
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Post by DavidRutherford » Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:09 pm

Way2go wrote:Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.
I hate cars that do this. When I want main beam, I want main beam only! There's no need to light up the road for 20' in front of the car, when I actually want the light 100'+ in front of the car. I find having the dip stay on with the main beam really annoying.

Hey ho. That's legeslation for you.
this might be a signature

M

Post by M » Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:24 am

Gentlemen - may I please direct you to THIS thread for all your pedantic needs. :wink:

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Tim Leech
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1972 Morris Marina 1.8 SDL BFA720L
1979 Rover SD1 3.5 V8-S TSL 982
1980 Morris Marina 1.7HL DBV468W
1985 CITROEN BX 19GT C1TBX
1991 CITROEN BX 19TZI AUTO A/C BXi 19
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Post by Tim Leech » Wed May 13, 2009 10:03 pm

Image

Taken today, out of hibernation for the first time this year, had a good clean and finally got the dentman to sort out the nasty ding on the osr door and a few other parking knocks. The Mk1 does feel a very different car to drive than a Mk2, but in a cool way! I forgot how low they sit when your drop the suspension, makes all the modern cars look very fat in comparison.
Last edited by Tim Leech on Thu May 14, 2009 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
1963 VW BEETLE 1200
1985 BX 19GT Mk1
1991 BX 19TZI Auto A/C
1994 Xantia 1.8i SX
1972 Morris Marina 1.8 SDL
1979 Rover SD1 V8-S
1980 Morris Marina 1.7HL
2002 Rover 75 CDTi Connossieur SE AUTO Nav
2003 Rover 25 1.6i XL 5 DR

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Post by maxgreenwood » Thu May 14, 2009 10:01 am

that is one smart looking motor :D A1
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Post by Tourist » Thu May 14, 2009 10:49 am

Really good Tim, really good :D

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Tim Leech
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My Cars: 1958 ROVER P4 90 UWP 84
1963 VW BEETLE 1200 KGJ413A
1972 Morris Marina 1.8 SDL BFA720L
1979 Rover SD1 3.5 V8-S TSL 982
1980 Morris Marina 1.7HL DBV468W
1985 CITROEN BX 19GT C1TBX
1991 CITROEN BX 19TZI AUTO A/C BXi 19
1994 CITROEN XANTIA 1.8 SXi M908HRY
2003 Rover 25 1.6i XL L33CHT
x 70

Post by Tim Leech » Thu May 14, 2009 10:53 am

Ta, I dont use her enough though, Ive yet to crack 1500 miles since November 2007, Saying that shes doing 220 miles this Sunday. Need to sort the wonky steering wheel and wobbly speedo when time allows, still after some Mk1 headlamp protectors guys!
Last edited by Tim Leech on Thu May 14, 2009 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
1963 VW BEETLE 1200
1985 BX 19GT Mk1
1991 BX 19TZI Auto A/C
1994 Xantia 1.8i SX
1972 Morris Marina 1.8 SDL
1979 Rover SD1 V8-S
1980 Morris Marina 1.7HL
2002 Rover 75 CDTi Connossieur SE AUTO Nav
2003 Rover 25 1.6i XL 5 DR

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Philip Chidlow
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Post by Philip Chidlow » Thu May 14, 2009 11:05 am

Roverman wrote:Mk1 headlamp protectors
Still no luck, Tim :(

New shed in the Autumn so a full clear out might yield results! But let's not hold our breath.
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Tim Leech
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Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:12 am
Location: Burton on Trent
My Cars: 1958 ROVER P4 90 UWP 84
1963 VW BEETLE 1200 KGJ413A
1972 Morris Marina 1.8 SDL BFA720L
1979 Rover SD1 3.5 V8-S TSL 982
1980 Morris Marina 1.7HL DBV468W
1985 CITROEN BX 19GT C1TBX
1991 CITROEN BX 19TZI AUTO A/C BXi 19
1994 CITROEN XANTIA 1.8 SXi M908HRY
2003 Rover 25 1.6i XL L33CHT
x 70

Post by Tim Leech » Thu May 14, 2009 11:17 am

No worries Phil, I keep scouring ebay and the citroen meetings, I had a set and fitted them to that Mk1 Leader. By the way for anyone reading the BXP the innerwings are bean can free as the car hasnt been welded. :wink:
1963 VW BEETLE 1200
1985 BX 19GT Mk1
1991 BX 19TZI Auto A/C
1994 Xantia 1.8i SX
1972 Morris Marina 1.8 SDL
1979 Rover SD1 V8-S
1980 Morris Marina 1.7HL
2002 Rover 75 CDTi Connossieur SE AUTO Nav
2003 Rover 25 1.6i XL 5 DR