Talking B____X

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:21 pm

No real reason to post except that the Forum seems so quiet at the moment - thought I'd make sure it didn't go to sleep completely

Some interest in the ZX, see how it goes. My frustrations with eBay (so vociferously echoed by Terry) continue - not that it has thus far really affected my buying/selling (more by coincidence than anything else). It all boils down to the fact that it is mandatory to offer buyers PayPal as a means of payment so I have to put something to the effect that 'should you choose to pay via this method I require you to pay the 3.4% , , '... Makes the sale so less appealing. eBay is going to the dogs. But until a popular viable alternative surfaces it still is the best way IMHO to buy/sell certain categories of item. Starting to lose my faith in the greedy ba***rds, though, big time!

If there was ever a case of not fixing something if it wasn't broken...

So, what else? Hope to pick up the 'new' BX on the 21st. Looking forward to it! Already planning a possible road trip in Europe next year!

More thoughts on the 'track day car' idea: Track days in themselves are frigging expensive in the UK. And the noise regs are very strict. And the insurance is flaming expensive. And, and, and... excuses!

All the more reason to consider the cost of the car. Set a budget of £250 and got from there? Seems a decent (safe!) set of tyre would see most of that off.

You can't create a reasonable track day car (BX or not) and run it reasonably safely for a few hundred quid.

Back to the drawing board.

Kitch · Post by **Kitch** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:40 pm

Noise restrictions aren't that strict mate, it's generally 98db and a standard TVR will pass that. Even with the link pipe on, I doubt a BX would put more than that out. I had the link pipe and the Sebring backbox and it was about the loudest BX I've heard. I don't reckon it ever hit 98db, or maybe at 7000rpm. You won't have this issues because the GTi won't do 7000rpm (effectively) without lots of work, and they only make you rev to around 70% of the rev range.

I doubt you'll have any noise issues at all. I got pulled over for other issues by the plod while having the pipe in and they never even mentioned it. In fact the plod have followed the TVR before and that puts out 120db at peak, which I also believe is in breach of the peace technically in the eyes of the law! Never got pulled though.

It wasn't allowed around Goodwood though. It hit 98db at 2200rpm

Stupid V8!

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:28 pm

OK. Assuming I can get a GTi or a 16v* for under £250. One that works. It'll need work sure, but it has to ba a viable driveable starting point.

(*Would a 19 carb TZS be any use I wonder - is that engine tune-able (different carb, etc.?)

Then get the weight down. Is 880-900kg a do-able target?

Then put decent tyres on it. Bolt a fire extinquisher to the footwell and off you go! (I know it's not that simple

)...

Anyone here actually done anything like this? Any pointers? A cheapo fast road/occasional track day car would be the first objective. I'm not looking to create a competitive balls-out racer. Yet.

If I can't get a 16v that isn't half dead, that'd be great. But for under £250 what can I expect? I could get a taxed and tested GTi for that... £195 might get me a 19TZS...

Kitch · Post by **Kitch** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:47 pm

Phil, you're gonna need way more than £250 to make a track car!

If you buy a GTi rather than a valver, you've got upgrading to vented braking, bigger anti-roll bars, stiffer spheres and wider wheels to contend with (although it's fair to say that there are no BX alloys suitable for a track car...they're all too heavy) And thats before you've given it any power. This blows the money you saved buying a GTi 8v.

If you buy a 19TZS, the above plus stiffer spheres still, alloys of any kind for wider tyres, a bigger bore exhaust system, a head with bigger valves (GTi's have bigger valves, yet are still considered too restrcitive) and fuelling/mechanicals to sort, as 19TZS' have about as much power as a Lib Dem in parliment. It also looks even less sporty than a GTi, which doesn't look sporty, and that in turn looks less sporty than a valver, purely because a vavler has a boxy bodykit rather crudely glued to it! I know looks aren't vital, but you need something to feel proud of sitting in the paddock!

For £250, I'd buy a old E34 525i manual, cut the silencers out of it, strip the interior and throw it away, drill loads of holes in the airbox so it at least sounded quick and cut the springs in half. Then find a smooth track! If a BX is what you really want then you have to do what you have to do.

The only proper track BX I know of (or knew of) was Gary Cole's old ph1 16v in white. Usually sported Saxo VTR rims with slicks on, held a few class records etc. Fully stripped except the regulated parts. He also went mad making everything as light as possible....drilling holes in wiper arms etc. He also removed the sunroof and bonded another roof skin on from a mk1 14. He got it down to 900kg IIRC, which is a pretty impressive 170kg!

Kitch · Post by **Kitch** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:50 pm

You'd be better off pulling the TD lump out of the ZX and bolting an S16/GTi-6 unit in!

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:59 pm

I'm going off the idea.

(Although I didn't think I'd get a £250 track day car - that's to buy the base car)

A good 16v would be the best starting point. As would a total budget of £2,000 I guess.

I think the best thing to do is get myself a GTi I can play with. And, in my own way, have a bit of fun. Club days at a track maybe, but just a bit of B-road action most of the time. Half-hearted, I know.

But, a GTi in good form still feels pretty fast to me.

Now, cahnge of tack:
How about a BX to get me to the Czech republic and back. I know - I'm getting one!

Kitch · Post by **Kitch** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:49 pm

Didn't wanna piss on your fire Phil, just being realistic. I've looked into the track day thing myself, and while I think it's definately a worthwhile idea, a BX just isn't the tool for the job (unless you have lots of money to throw at one!) They're too loping, too laid back and too soft, and no matter how bonkers a valver may feel in a straight line, they just don't corner like other hot hatches. Fine, if your track is Santa Pod!

A reckon a BX could make it anywhere if it was maintained well enough. I'm hoping to take mine to St Helens via Nottingham tomorrow with a NSF CV boot which is clearly too small. The ABS light has already come on as CV grease has escaped onto the teeth on the joint....here's hoping it stays on!

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 1:41 am

No probs Kitch, mate. It's clearly a case of horses for courses. A BX GTi (manual) still appeals for old time's sake maybe for some deep country lane thrills. But maybe not.

I reckon if it's track day excitement I want an E30 M3 might be a better bet!

Kitch · Post by **Kitch** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:46 pm

Oh yeah A-B in the countryside the valver comes into it's own. But a track would make it look like a 12 yr old kid who can't read or write.

E30 M3 definately a better bet....bit of a money difference though

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:57 pm

Well, money. Therin lies the rub. Getting a car you could at least have fun in onto a track will take a bit of cash.

Other Citreon contenders would be a Visa GT/GTi, GS, etc. but they're going to cost. A little AX GTi might be OK

- but if I can't do it with a BX I wouldn't bother.

So, maybe I'll just end up running the GTi auto I have and enjoying that, cruising sedately around, whilst thinking of 'another plan'

Has anyone Hill Climbed a BX I wonder...?

mnde · Post by **mnde** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:59 pm

Track daying doesn't really appeal to me as much as rallying - classic/budget endurance, regularity, competition...

I've had this ambition for a while to buy a white GS, cover it in rally stickers, kit it out with Cibie spotlights etc. and rally it!

Ultimate would be to select a £100 "banger" off eBay and enter something like the Plymouth-Dakar Rally. I watched the Jack Osborne programme about competing in the Mongol Rally - it looks like tremendous fun... as long as the car holds out!

Mark.

stuart_hedges · Post by **stuart_hedges** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:13 pm

For fast road stuff... I happened to see a friend on my way home from mnde's place yesterday, out for a drive in his Morgan. We had a chat by the roadside, then headed for home, me in the lead. I was pulling away from him most of the time...!

Who was having more fun? Not sure, as I've never driven the Morgan. I know he loves it, but I was certainly enjoying myself though. I think BXs are hilarious to drive hard.

And I was within the posted speed limit at all times. That is the truth, not just a disclaimer! Tight twisty bits where you can't physically reach 60 are the fun parts.

Philip Chidlow · Post by **Philip Chidlow** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:21 pm

Can I admit to something a little avant garde? I would secretly like to cock a snoot at the 16v fraternity and get a good 'ol 8v GTi sorted as a 'fun car' !!!

Post by **mat_fenwick** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:41 pm

I think quite a few people would agree with you - there's a kind of strange satisfaction from making a (relatively) slow car fast, that you wouldn't get from making a fast car faster. The whole wolf in sheep's clothing idea for example...

Stuart, I know exactly what you mean about the tight twisty bits - I think exactly the same when I am on my bike. Although I have rebuilt the engine as a 650cc, I have kept the gearing the same as the 450 - resulting in surprising acceleration. I don't get any kicks from riding fast (although it is geared to about 100mph), but accerating hard out of a corner is ace!

stuart_hedges · Post by **stuart_hedges** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:08 pm

Agree grade and comments.

The great thing about the TD engine is that while the 0-60 speed is frankly a bit rubbish, and it's a bit embarrassing away the lights, the urge is all exactly where you want it - at 2500 rpm, foot hard down, on the way out of a corner.

Phil, I've never driven either sort of GTi but I take the point.