BXAGON CHALLENGE

Here members post meetings, events, meet ups and the like
User avatar
mat_fenwick
Moderator
Posts: 7278
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:08 pm
Location: North Wales
x 13

Post by mat_fenwick » Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:31 pm

Not wanting to sound unimaginative, but I think the original name is spot on (even if slightly cheesy, but that's no bad thing!) If we later run into insurance problems (which to be honest I hadn't even considered) then perhaps we can think about an alternative.
On the subject of the two charities put forward, I will add my voice to their support. I have been fortunate enough not to have been involved with either, but recognise the work they do. They are well known which will help with the profile of the event, and I think to have too many may start to get messy.
Image

1993 1.9 TZD Turbo Estate
1996 3.9 V8 Discovery
1993 VW LT35 campervan
1985 Hyundai Stellar V8
2016 Hyundai iLoad

User avatar
docchevron
The Immoderate half of the admin team
Posts: 7524
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 7:03 pm
Location: A Bucket of Fish
x 7

Post by docchevron » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:42 am

Philip Chidlow wrote: Chris, would you be interested? You could volunteer to become technical advisor (and be part of a team on the run) and advise (what else would an advisor do?) those taking part as to the ideal BX 'keep on the road/get you going again' pack to carry in the boots of participating cars!
Yes.
I am very interested.
Whilst I'm sure their are more technically proficient people on here that undoubtedly have better luck with their health than I manage, assuming I can get the time off work (and given the amount of notice it shouldn't be a problem) and assuming I'm not dead / limbless / blind etc etc by then, then shit yes, I'm well up for it.

I'm not all that fussed about "love and peace, good deeds, saving the world, charity" and all that shit TBH, but it sounds like a bloody awesome thing to go do.
I'm a bit slow on the general bigger picture here as I haven't yet read all the various other posts about this yet.
I'm assuming we are talking about running several teams in several cars?

The only charities I support are animal charities since I much prefer animals to people but I'm game for giving cash to any charity really, unless it's the Taliban Liberation Front or some other rag head rebel type establishment for terrorists.

Count me in.
I may even take the valver!
Smokes lots, because enough's enough already!

Far too many BX's, a bus, an ambulance a few trucks, not enough time and never enough cash...

Jaro
Confirmed BX'er
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:57 pm
Location: France

Post by Jaro » Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:04 am

Well I’ve been a sponsor and very occasionally been sponsored so here’s my two cents worth:-
Philip Chidlow is absolutely right the name and the logo are very very important –it’s a brand name you’re selling to potential funders and if that brand name does not sound or look right you will find it much harder to raise any money.
The name needs, when it’s decided on, to be a registered mark owned by your club, because if it isn’t and the scheme is successful, then anyone could just use it maybe and if they make a balls up later, it reflect back on the groups legitimacy. Or just nick it and use it for commercial purposes
That registration needs to be in place before approaching any sponsors, it’s another thing which adds credibility to your fund raising approach and it protects the scheme.
If you are trying to get international support for a pan Anglo French event then I don’t see how you can avoid having a French based charity involved.
Along with a UK based one of the same type would be maybe best, imagine asking Citroen for their help if it’s just for a UK based fund, don’t forget that they are probably asked for help like this so many times that I bet they got a whole sponsorship department.
I think ideally the charity should have some linkage maybe Oxfam have a French operation, or Médecins Sans Frontières may have a sister organisation in the UK.
But you may find that the sponsor wants a particular charity..
My name suggestions are
The BxHex Classic Challenge (pronounced bexhex)
Then giving you some future headroom
CxHex, XmHex, AxHex, DsHex All these could be added to the first registration so that the format of your work could be repeated with other clubs later.
Or the same thing but dropping the Hex in favour of the “ring” = The BxRing
Now the “ring” concept could be used in other counties!
The French use the word “raid” for a rally type thing so BxHex Raid might be considered or more accurately Raid BxHex. Although approaching any of the UK banks with a sponsorship deal with the name raid in it might be a bit tricky
Maybe the word Box could be used as in “Nation Boxing” for any rally which goes around the edge.
Anyway just a few thoughts

User avatar
Philip Chidlow
Over 2k
Posts: 11576
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:08 pm
Location: Chelmsford, Essex
x 16

Post by Philip Chidlow » Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:26 am

Very valid points. I must say, having slept on it I am inclined to agree re: including a 'Global'/French charity and as I mentioned early on in the ruminations about this Medicins sans frontiers does have a UK arm and that will tick the boxes.

I don't think there will be a problem with multiple (but not unlimited!) charities. I don't think, however it's the role of sponsors to dictate which charities we choose. They either donate or they don't.

Great to get your support Chris! BTW. I'll be in touch.
• 1992 Citroen BX TZD Turbo Hurricane
• 2006 Xsara Picasso 1.6 16v

User avatar
Way2go
Over 2k
Posts: 7279
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:15 pm
Location: RCoBerkshire
x 2

Post by Way2go » Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:29 pm

Philip Chidlow wrote: I'm happy to listen to points of view, don't get me wrong! But if we can say 'Here is an non-profit-making event, supported by a club, which will take place on so-and-so date, over such-and-such route in aid of Charity A and Charity B. Here's our Press Pack. Can you support us?'
A few 'ponders' that need resolving in the early stages! :?

1) How 'official' will this be as a club event?

2) Will the provenance of 'BX Club' be recognized and acceptable to larger companies/organizations that are asked for sponsorship/donations?

3) I assume we need Jon's agreement and endorsement of this as a club event to use BX Club name? (Sorry if I've missed this amongst the responses so far?) Or does it follow that it is a democratic agreement amongst the membership to proceed?

I'm also not sure that in asking sponsors to donate they will dictate which charity receives a benefit as you infer or should be allowed to do this. More likely they will be base their go/no-go decision on the event and the chosen charities pitched to them.
Also remember that in asking for charity support from French companies that have subsidiaries here like Citroen UK, they have their own marketing budgets out of which such monies will be paid and will likely get better exposure in the media here for their support to a UK charity than a less emotive European one.
Perhaps if another charity is added in it should be something French like French Cancer Research rather than a Third World Aid one. Something that the French will applaud and does in fact give benefits to all if they make a breakthrough! This may well raise French general interest at the staging points but I know nothing about the rules and problems of collecting on French soil.
1991 BX19GTi Auto

User avatar
Way2go
Over 2k
Posts: 7279
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:15 pm
Location: RCoBerkshire
x 2

Post by Way2go » Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:35 pm

Philip Chidlow wrote:I don't think, however it's the role of sponsors to dictate which charities we choose. They either donate or they don't.
Just re-read this post. Agreed! :D
1991 BX19GTi Auto

User avatar
Philip Chidlow
Over 2k
Posts: 11576
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:08 pm
Location: Chelmsford, Essex
x 16

Post by Philip Chidlow » Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:53 pm

Extremely pertinent, Way2go. Very much appreciated.

I would love the BX Club to be credited as a principle sponsor for offering the platform for all of us to come together to do this. WITH JON'S PERMISSION. We will promote the Club by our actions and as a consequence do something - no matter how small - to help a good cause (including raising awareness of the BX and this brilliant Club).

Before I go much further I will e-mail Jon and the other moderators asking for their candid views. It has never been my intention to hijack this Forum for the purposes of an event not fully endorsed by the Club founder(s) and until I get approval I will have to curb my enthusiasm.

In the meantime: About sponsors being given a choice as to which charity to support: This is something I feel is tricky - worries me a bit, and think I have a solution. We'll come to the French bit later.

Make all UK donations go to ONE UK charity. We can hold a poll to decide which one. This makes the whole thing REALLY LOADS more simple to organise: One charity. One event. One website/page. One cause. One message... you get the idea. Most events of this type appear to be in support of a single cause.

We can change which charity we support in other events in the future after all.

Let's not run before we can walk. There's more to this than originally appeared (as I'm finding out). We don't know how well we will do. There is a learning curve ahead and at this stage I don't think we need to over-complicate things.

(Sorry if I seem skittish or even schizophrenic in putting my thoughts down - I'm thinking this through as I go along! All in the interests of making this a joint effort with which all participants feel generally happy with).


French charity and support: A difficult one this. I suggest we ask one of our French residents to help here. We need someone who can direct (via local publicity I guess) donations to a French charity website/address. Cash donations en route cannot - in my opinion - be accepted as I don't particularly want to be robbed. Let alone be accused of nicking Euros to help fund the trip. You know what people are like. As it is I think we will be viewed wryly as a bunch of nutty Rostbifs anyway :lol:
• 1992 Citroen BX TZD Turbo Hurricane
• 2006 Xsara Picasso 1.6 16v

User avatar
Way2go
Over 2k
Posts: 7279
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:15 pm
Location: RCoBerkshire
x 2

Post by Way2go » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:09 pm

This seems to be the largest French Cancer Research Website

There was some investigation into them by the French Government about a decade ago so we should ask our French contributors to advise on whether all is straightforward there today as I can't see what the outcome was on the web. :?
1991 BX19GTi Auto

User avatar
Kitch
Over 2k
Posts: 6205
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:36 pm
Location: Fareham, Hants
x 49

Post by Kitch » Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:23 pm

Philip Chidlow wrote:Kitch raises a couple of points we need to discuss:

First why should it matter what it's called? and second, why limit ourselves to two charities and why can't everyone just give to a charity of their choice?

My feelings are:
It does matter what it's called and how it's pitched. It needs marketing and if it sounds or looks indistinct, ill-thought out or even half-hearted it will make it harder to get the message across. It won't be difficult to come up with a name that communicates the essence of what we are intending to do I believe, and I can do a logo etc. It'll be worth it.

Now, onto the question of charity. It was always going to be thorny.
In my opinion, it will be important to make sure potential donators understand that the money they give won't disappear into some black hole. Tracking donations will be vital to ensuring and reinforcing legitimacy. If we make it a free-for-all we might as well all turn up having arranged our own event. The only common aspect will be the car we drive (but if it is such an individual event, not necessarily!). Teams could then elect to drive at a time that suits them and so on...

I'm happy to listen to points of view, don't get me wrong! But if we can say 'Here is an non-profit-making event, supported by a club, which will take place on so-and-so date, over such-and-such route in aid of Charity A and Charity B. Here's our Press Pack. Can you support us?' Rather than 'Me and my mate are taking our BX to France, on so-and-so date, over such-and-such route in aid of Charity(ies) XYZ...' You get the idea.

Why not concentrate our efforts to raise meaningful sums of money for two charities rather than dissipate those efforts?

Right, that's my point of view. Let's try to gather some alternative viewpoints to discuss further?
8) :D
Well, I didn't actually mention the name as I have no thoughts on it :wink:
I just wondered why it has to be a pre-decided charity? When people do the London Marathon, they raise money for which ever charity they choose to support, and it's just one big charitable event. My thoughts are why can't we do this? Because unless you're trying to get businesses to get involved (which they probably won't want to) or trying to get some press purely for the event, surely it doesn't matter which charities are supported?
My point is that individual members, possibly myself included, would rally around everyone and everything they know asking for sponsorship for such an event. The individual could even go direct to the charity itself for backup....posters etc. The charity may then choose to get some press over this.

Think of all the collective charities being involved. People will be more fired up if its a charity they chose, because it may be close their hearts. Cancer has taken people from me, and far too many others, so personally I'd support a cancer charity. But some may have been fortunate to not cross paths with it, and may be far more bothered about Parkinsons for example? They'd put more effort in if it was something that has affected them.

Not that I'm questioning anyone's efforts, I'm just trying to think of ways to make it as successful as it has the potential to be.
I think trying to make it a big official event out of it may be detracting from the original core reason for doing it....to raise money.

The other thing of course, is how much sponsorship is needed. Not to sound cruel, but is it worth doing for say £30? I know most people could easily raise more, but you have to ask.....how much will this cost to do? It's going to cost a bomb in fuel, overnight accomodation, maintainance and spares etc.....will the sponsorship money match that? Otherwise you'd be better off just donating the money you were willing to fork out to do the whole thing in the first place :lol:
I supposed that'd need to be any member's benchmark.....weigh one against the other at the finish and decide whether it was a success or not! If you're still in the black, result! If it means convoying at 56mph everywhere, so be it. :shock: :lol:

User avatar
Philip Chidlow
Over 2k
Posts: 11576
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:08 pm
Location: Chelmsford, Essex
x 16

Post by Philip Chidlow » Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:52 pm

(You can tell I'm not busy today!)

Keen to keep the debate open and step back from wasting time on an over-ambitious scheme here's another suggestion:

So long as those reading these (lengthy) posts understands this is necessary in order to evolve a practical event, I trust it will be tolerated!

So in the spirit of this, I've just been doing some sums.

Cost of sending one team on this event: Crossing: £80, Fuel say, £500. Consumables like oil another, allow £50. Wear and tear - equivalent to a tyre, a back box and a couple of litres of LHM, c. £100. Accommodation: F1 (hotel that is) style: 12 nights @ £380 and food etc. £220. Add a few quid on top for insurance, breakdown cover and you're talking £1,500. If the team can raise the equivalent in donations that's good.

So how about this?

This started with me thinking of a way of having a Club BX adventure that could be (at least partly) justified on the grounds that charity would benefit. The Gumball 3000 event costs participants loads of money too - with an entry fee in the hundreds and they manage to raise £££'s. The argument that the charities benefiting from the event would be better served if every entrant merely stayed at home and donated everything they would have spent doesn't wash. Who's going to give money to a charity so someone stays safely at home?

With this in mind:

Each BX team enters individually under the banner of BX Charity Challenge, say.
Each team must satisfy the following criteria:
Supply a BX.
Pay for own expenses for the trip (that £1,500+ mentioned above). :D
Pay a entry fee. This won't be big, but depending upon the number of teams (If we could get six or more) it should cover the cost of Liability Insurance for the organisers (TBC). A bit more could pay for the event graphics stickers for the cars (but I would hope to get those free if I could).
Obtain pledges and donations to the tune of a minimum of (say) £1,000 for the team's chosen charity. I would be tempted to say higher but I think it would disuade teams.

Any further thoughts?
• 1992 Citroen BX TZD Turbo Hurricane
• 2006 Xsara Picasso 1.6 16v

User avatar
mat_fenwick
Moderator
Posts: 7278
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:08 pm
Location: North Wales
x 13

Post by mat_fenwick » Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:37 pm

I'm following this with interest, I don't have a strong view on the charity decision as I can see arguments for and against. It may just come down to the ease of organisation, as it is becoming obvious that this event needs more preparation than first thought!
Regarding the dates, I'm all for bringing it forwards to next year, however I would prefer it to be after mid October, as our (small) company has its annual audit in early October. I am usually heavily involved with that and the preperation beforehand, also a potential teamate also works with me so it would be difficult for both of us to take a couple of weeks off! Having said that, it may be possible to shift the audit forwards a few weeks if others have problems with late October.
Sorry if this sounds selfish, I'm just trying to think ahead for any problems.
Image

1993 1.9 TZD Turbo Estate
1996 3.9 V8 Discovery
1993 VW LT35 campervan
1985 Hyundai Stellar V8
2016 Hyundai iLoad

User avatar
Kitch
Over 2k
Posts: 6205
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:36 pm
Location: Fareham, Hants
x 49

Post by Kitch » Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:07 pm

Philip Chidlow wrote:(You can tell I'm not busy today!)

Keen to keep the debate open and step back from wasting time on an over-ambitious scheme here's another suggestion:

So long as those reading these (lengthy) posts understands this is necessary in order to evolve a practical event, I trust it will be tolerated!

So in the spirit of this, I've just been doing some sums.

Cost of sending one team on this event: Crossing: £80, Fuel say, £500. Consumables like oil another, allow £50. Wear and tear - equivalent to a tyre, a back box and a couple of litres of LHM, c. £100. Accommodation: F1 (hotel that is) style: 12 nights @ £380 and food etc. £220. Add a few quid on top for insurance, breakdown cover and you're talking £1,500. If the team can raise the equivalent in donations that's good.

So how about this?

This started with me thinking of a way of having a Club BX adventure that could be (at least partly) justified on the grounds that charity would benefit. The Gumball 3000 event costs participants loads of money too - with an entry fee in the hundreds and they manage to raise £££'s. The argument that the charities benefiting from the event would be better served if every entrant merely stayed at home and donated everything they would have spent doesn't wash. Who's going to give money to a charity so someone stays safely at home?
With this in mind:

Each BX team enters individually under the banner of BX Charity Challenge, say.
Each team must satisfy the following criteria:
Supply a BX.
Pay for own expenses for the trip (that £1,500+ mentioned above). :D
Pay a entry fee. This won't be big, but depending upon the number of teams (If we could get six or more) it should cover the cost of Liability Insurance for the organisers (TBC). A bit more could pay for the event graphics stickers for the cars (but I would hope to get those free if I could).
Obtain pledges and donations to the tune of a minimum of (say) £1,000 for the team's chosen charity. I would be tempted to say higher but I think it would disuade teams.

Any further thoughts?
Think you've misunderstood me there Phil. Look at it this way....someone raises £800 sponsorship money for the event. Thats £800 to charity. Well done to them.

Now it costs this person £1500 to do this event. If they gave the £1500 to charity and didn't get any sponsors, the charity would be better off if they stayed at home and didn't turn a wheel. If it was purely for charity, this is the more logical and productive way to donate.

If however, you want a jolly and to give it some moral fibre you donate some sponsorship money to charity, so be it. But you've got to be careful....it's probably going to cost more to do it than the amount of money you'll donate, so you could hardly say it was charity-focused. More charity-based.

If someone runs the London marathon, it costs them a stupid outfit, whether fancy dress or lycra and some sweat and hard work. They raise a hundred times what they pay out, and that in itself is a work of pure charity. Other than the satisfaction of saying "I've run the London Marathon" theres nothing in it for you.

With this event, I think theres more in it for the participants than the charities. So I think it's got to be very carefully penned and worded. There are far more effective ways of raising money for charity.

Not to slam the idea of course, any way of raising money for charity has to be commended. But where other people's money is involved, I think it might raise some eyebrows.

User avatar
Philip Chidlow
Over 2k
Posts: 11576
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:08 pm
Location: Chelmsford, Essex
x 16

Post by Philip Chidlow » Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:07 pm

Exactly. From what my initially seem to be a simple thing it soon becomes apparent this is a lot harder. But I think there's a way forward:

There is this issue over it being a jolly that as a by-product donates to charity.

Well am I alone in thinking this is not such a bad thing. After all no one is being asked to put money into the trip per se.

I don't believe it will raise eyebrows. We can be quite realistic and honest and say for each team entering, maybe £500 goes to charity. That is EVERY PENNY of what is donated.

The by-product is that various charities receive money that they otherwise wouldn't. In the end no-one is forcing anyone to donate.

I am keen to hear other's points of view.
• 1992 Citroen BX TZD Turbo Hurricane
• 2006 Xsara Picasso 1.6 16v

User avatar
docchevron
The Immoderate half of the admin team
Posts: 7524
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 7:03 pm
Location: A Bucket of Fish
x 7

Post by docchevron » Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:13 am

Jesus!
I think this thread may win the annual award for the the word "charity" being used more in one place than any other EVAH!

Ok, hows this:
Fuck the charities, give all the money to me to put into the bus, and we all just go on a two week raod trip / piss up across France?!

Er, I am only kinda joking BTW....

Have to say though, the jaunt itself is whats attracting me to it, the whole raising money for illumni doesn't really appeal to my very selfish inner self.
But thats just me.
I still love the idea of a convoy of BX's filled with nutters hitting the streets of France though.
Smokes lots, because enough's enough already!

Far too many BX's, a bus, an ambulance a few trucks, not enough time and never enough cash...

User avatar
Philip Chidlow
Over 2k
Posts: 11576
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:08 pm
Location: Chelmsford, Essex
x 16

Post by Philip Chidlow » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:03 am

It's the main reason I'd do it! Just seems like we might as well get added value by helping out some charities... (Personally, I think it would be better if we decided on one charity to collect for, but that's my opinion).
• 1992 Citroen BX TZD Turbo Hurricane
• 2006 Xsara Picasso 1.6 16v